121 - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth?
The millionth hit on this blog is as good an occasion as any to finally broach the inevitable subject for a blog about curious cartography: Middle-earth. J.R.R. Tolkien’s invented mythology centred on an epic story of the struggle between Good and Evil, but it also included an elaborate backstory, a complex of languages, genealogies, cultures and peoples – and a map.
Created by Tolkien somewhere in the 1930s, the map shows the ‘mortal lands’ of Middle-earth, which according to Tolkien himself is part of our own Earth, but in a previous, mythical era. At the time of the events described in ‘The Hobbit’ and ‘The Lord of the Rings’, Middle-earth is moving towards the end of its Third Age, about 6.000 years ago.
Tolkien didn’t create Middle-earth ex nihilo: ancient Germanic myths divide the Universe in nine worlds, inhabited by elves, dwarves, giants, etc. The world of men is the one in the middle, called Midgard, Middenheim or Middle-earth. That term doesn’t thus describe the entirety of the world Tolkien thought up. The correct term for the total world is Arda – probably derived from German Erde (’Earth’) and only first mentioned posthumously in the Silmarillion (1977); and Eä (for the whole Universe).
The Hobbits are described as inhabiting ‘the North-West of the Old World, east of the Sea’, and therefore it’s tempting to associate their home with Tolkien’s own, England. Yet, Tolkien himself wrote that ‘as for the shape of the world of the Third Age, I am afraid that was devised ‘dramatically’, rather than geologically, or paleontologically.” Elsewhere, Tolkien does admit “The ‘Shire’ is based on rural England, and not any other country in the world.”
Tolkien at least compares his ‘Old World’ with Europe: “The action of the story takes place in the North-West of ‘Middle-earth’, equivalent in latitude to the coastlands of Europe and the north shores of the Mediterranean (…) If Hobbiton and Rivendell are taken (as intended) to be about the latitude of Oxford, then Minas Tirith, 600 miles south, is at about the latitude of Florence. The Mouths of Anduin and the ancient city of Pelargir are at about the latitude of ancient Troy.”
But, as Tolkien states in the prologue to ‘The Lord of the Rings’, it would be fruitless to look for geographical correspondences, as “Those days, the Third Age of Middle-earth, are now long past, and the shape of all lands has been changed…” And yet, that’s exactly what Peter Bird attempts with the map here shown. Bird, a professor of Geophysics and Geology at UCLA, has overlapped the map of Middle-earth with one of Europe, which leads to following locations:
• The Shire is in the South-West of England, which further north is also home to the Old Forest (Yorkshire?), the Barrow Downs (north of England), the city of Bree (at or near Newcastle-upon-Tyne) and Amon Sul (Scottish Highlands).
• The Grey Havens are situated in Ireland.
• Eriador corresponds with Brittany.
• Helm’s Deep is near the Franco-German-Swiss border tripoint, close to the city of Basel.
• The mountain chain of Ered Nimrais is the Alps.
• Gondor corresponds with the northern Italian plains, extended towards the unsubmerged Adriatic Sea.
• Mordor is situated in Transylvania, with Mount Doom in Romania (probably), Minas Morgul in Hungary (approximately) and Minas Tirith in Austria (sort of).
• Rohan is in southern Germany, with Edoras at the foot of the Bavarian Alps. Also in Germany, but to the north, near present-day Hamburg, is Isengard. Close by is the forest of Fangorn.
• To the north is Mirkwood, further east are Rhovanion and the wastes of Rhûn, close to the Ural mountains.
• The Sea of Rhûn corresponds to the Black Sea.
• Khand is Turkey
• Haradwaith is the eastern part of North Africa, Umbar corresponds with the Maghreb, the western part of North Africa.
• The Bay of Belfalas is the western part of the Mediterranean.
This map taken here from professor Bird’s page at UCLA.


Wow. OK, so I get double points for nerdiness (maps AND Tolkein) but I love this.
Comment by sylvia — June 4, 2007 @
Unfortunately, Dr. Bird doesn’t explain how he made the map. He hasn’t simply transposed Tolkein’s map onto a map of Europe, as others have done. Instead, it looks like he’s run time backwards and lowered the sea levels, then looked for correspondences between M-E and Europe. In Tolkein, for example, the trip from the Shire through Bree to Rivendell is more or less West-to-East, while on this map it’s almost a straight Northward march. However, it’s not a simple rotation, since Minas Tirith is due West of Minas Morgul on both maps.
Comment by Todd — June 4, 2007 @
Tolkien wasn’t so nice to us Hungarians:-)
Comment by aetil — June 4, 2007 @
Denmark appears to have acquired a mountain range.:P
Comment by Leo Petr — June 4, 2007 @
Does that mean the Americas are the Undying Lands? Were the Native Americans actually Elves (and three Hobbits and a Dwarf)?
Comment by Jason — June 4, 2007 @
A very interesting concept. I know that Tolkien based many of the races/geopolitics of MiddleEarth on the Geopolitics of post WWI Europe. Very Interesting indeed
Comment by jtbrookreson — June 4, 2007 @
[...] 121 - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? [image] The millionth hit on this blog is as good an occasion as any to finally broach the inevitable subject for a […] [...]
Pingback by Top Posts « WordPress.com — June 4, 2007 @
Eriador is not only “Brittany”, it’s the whole region between the Misty Mountains (shown here as Hithaeglir) and the Blue Mountains (Ered Luin) – which latter were the eastern boundary of Beleriand.
One of Tolkien’s letters, I think, says the distance and direction between Hobbiton and Minas Anor matches that between Oxford and Rome.
But if Middle-Earth reflects “the geopolitics post WWI Europe”, the analogies are way too subtle for me. Do the corrupt East and South represent Germans or Slavs or Turks? Where is France? Why is Italy the front-line defender of all that is good?
Comment by Anton Sherwood — June 5, 2007 @
I guess Rockall is the grave of Turambar, said to be the only point of Beleriand remaining above water.
Comment by Anton Sherwood — June 5, 2007 @
I’m glad to see the inclusion of maps for fictional places.
Comment by rek — June 5, 2007 @
[...] Vía e información: Strange Maps - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? [...]
Pingback by La Cartoteca » Blog Archive » Tolkien vs Mundo Real — June 5, 2007 @
@Jason: No, North America is not the Undying Lands, since they were removed from the world when it was bent (made round).
@jtbrookreson & Anton: I don’t think Tolkien really based Lord of the Rings on post WW1 Europe. He was more interested in connecting with older stories/cultures. The culture of the Rohirrim, for example, imagine that the ancestors of the Anglo Saxons had horses (”Beowulf with horses”).
Comment by Todd — June 8, 2007 @
Nice map. I think I live in Lorien.
Comment by Nikolaj — June 10, 2007 @
Wow, I live exactly at Erebor.
Comment by Kabanoid — June 10, 2007 @
[...] on Earth was Middle Earth? This guy thinks he has it figured out. Excerpt: • The Shire is in the South-West of England, which further north is also home to the [...]
Pingback by The Daily Eudemon — June 11, 2007 @
Mr. Sherwood–Italy might be the front-line defender of all that is good because Tolkien was a Roman Catholic; his own religion centered on Rome, although for various other reasons he loved his home country and the mythology of Europe’s more northern climes.
It doesn’t have all that much to do with post-WWI Europe.
I’d really like to know how the maker of this map arrived at his conclusions.
Comment by JaneC — June 12, 2007 @
Cool. I am from Mordor. From around Mount Doom.
PS @Jackson: Todd is right. The Undying Lands are beyond our reach; Númenor is actually Atlantis, and the new lands (Americas) were created by Ilúvatar after Númenor was destroyed.
Comment by tapirul — June 12, 2007 @
Well, the scale at least is very different. If one accounts for the various journeys taken on foot (Rivendell to Lorien, for example), the Middle-Earth mapped in the books is considerably smaller than the continent.
Comment by Malfred — June 12, 2007 @
what a load of old bollocks..! :D
Tolkein based the entirety of middle earth on the ‘Midlands and Black Country’ area of the UK.
Sauron’ Mt Doom/Castle affair for example is based upon an old water mill in Kenilworth which Tolkein used to visit when he was a child.. Ask (most) people from the Midlands and they will tell you the same thing (after they’ve mugged you and nicked yer tainers)… We had this shit drilled into us from infants…
Comment by dr3n — June 12, 2007 @
[...] Where on Earth is Middle Earth June 12, 2007 Posted by Wilhelm2451 in Lord of the Rings Online. trackback The blog Strange Maps, an interesting read on most days, has an entry with a map of Europe overlayed on a map of Middle Earth. Done by a professor at UCLA, if nothing else if provides an interesting scale to the Middle Earth. Find it here. [...]
Pingback by Where on Earth is Middle Earth « The Ancient Gaming Noob — June 12, 2007 @
[...] Middle Earth [...]
Pingback by The Heinrich Show » Blog Archive » Do you like Maps? — June 12, 2007 @
[...] seen strange maps yet, there are a lot of cool maps over there. another great one is the map of middle earth which tries to figure out where all of the main points of interest would be in europe. with how [...]
Pingback by maps at kittyholmes — June 12, 2007 @
Wow! This is brilliant! And incredibly destructive to my office productivity! :D
Comment by Brian — June 12, 2007 @
[...] Jun 12, 2007 in Uncategorized 121 - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? « strange maps [...]
Pingback by Map of Middle-Earth/Europe « The Wingèd Man — June 13, 2007 @
[...] site has a number of interesting maps, including a terrific map of Middle Earth, and a map of 19-century Hannover, Germany, tattooed on a woman’s [...]
Pingback by The Penultimate Word » Hey, we’re Argentina — June 13, 2007 @
Fascinating - as is the rest of your site! I wrote a book, TOLKIEN’S MAPS OF MIDDLE-EARTH with artist John Howe and there are a couple of map references (!) on my blog…
http://briansibleysblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/mapping-imagination.html
Comment by Brian Sibley — June 14, 2007 @
[...] Found a cool blog. This is the best post I’ve read there. One of the things I loved about LOTR all the years was the maps. Even in the paperbacks without [...]
Pingback by Strange Maps « i am indisposed — June 15, 2007 @
[...] taste of kind of thing you’ll find, Middle Earth layered onto a map of Europe…read the Strange Maps post as it’ll make [...]
Pingback by Two great blogs « Stuff-O-Rama — June 16, 2007 @
[...] vez se haban preguntado: Where On Earth Was Middle-earth?. Al escribir J.R.R. Tolkien su famosa saga del Seor de los anillos, cre razas, lenguajes, [...]
Pingback by ¿Dónde estaba la Tierra Media? » …Microplagio… — June 17, 2007 @
[...] Earth Geography for Fans With Lives I may be the last person to read Strange Maps’ post about Middle Earth, seeing as how the blog gets a million hits and I only learned about it today, but there’s [...]
Pingback by Middle Earth Geography for Fans With Lives « fandumb — June 19, 2007 @
Where in the World was Middle Earth?
A geography professor’s hypothetical geomorphology of Middle Earth
Trackback by Ian Bogost — June 20, 2007 @
aetil wrote:
“Tolkien wasn’t so nice to us Hungarians:-)”
actually, i’d say history wasn’t so nice to us Magyars.
i’m glad to see a map with minas anor = vienna and minas ithil = budapest (danube=anduin). tolkein was clearly influenced by the great seiges of vienna (by easterlings and southerons) and muslim capture of hungary (half of a twin kingdon)
Comment by Steven — June 20, 2007 @
Very clever. There’s something satsifying about the way the mountain ranges match up. I’ve got no problem with distances and directions being stretched and skewed: consider Herodotus’s map of Europe and Africa for example - basically right but distorted.
The thing that is strange is that the Grey Havens are shown substantially inland. That’s an awful long way to drag the boats…
Comment by Quercus — June 21, 2007 @
The arabic word “Ard” for earth is very similar to German, Erd
Comment by Sam — June 21, 2007 @
I’m from Romania, so that means that in Tolkein’s terminology I’m a Mount Doomer. :P Funneh. Do good people live near Mount Doom?
Comment by bovanne — June 22, 2007 @
I believe this was also tried with Robert E. Howard’s Hyborian Age map…
Comment by Tyger — June 22, 2007 @
[...] [link][more] [...]
Pingback by VeronicasLore.com » Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? — June 24, 2007 @
The guy who made this is a professor of what, Geophysics and Geology? And he thinks the *scottish* highlands are in england? This will be one of these professorships that you can buy online, no? He’s obviously not a professor in geography ;-)
Comment by Tsk — June 24, 2007 @
Really nicely done.
Comment by Grey — June 24, 2007 @
Naw……was definitely New Zealand…… :)
Comment by osiris7 — June 24, 2007 @
This draws a interesting parallel between Gondor and the Dutchy of Savoie.
Comment by genitalsmckool — June 24, 2007 @
[...] and discussion at Strange Maps. Conceivably Related PostsKangaroo Court This post from Daily Kos can’t be improved on, so I quote [...]
Pingback by frozen coagulated culture » Where in the World was Middle Earth? — June 24, 2007 @
The Gray Havens are at the mouth of the Shannon River?
That does my Irish-American heart proud.
Comment by Sean — June 25, 2007 @
[...] http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/121-where-on-earth-was-middle-earth/ [...]
Pingback by FlashLadyBug.com » Where on Earth is Middle Earth? — June 25, 2007 @
[...] Find out here. [...]
Pingback by Exceedingly Curious » Blog Archive » Middle Earth — June 25, 2007 @
NICE MAP!!!!
Comment by Prabha Govind — June 25, 2007 @
Cool, I live in Rivendell (Trondheim). :)
Comment by Kasami — June 25, 2007 @
great map.
There is a story told (probably by Midlanders) that the shire was based on the area around sarehole mill in birmingham
Comment by steve — June 25, 2007 @
Brilliant analysis
Comment by Zero Sum One — June 25, 2007 @
Yup, I think I would have put those Grey Havens by the sea.. And where they are there is pretty much on top of a city called Limerick - which really is an unholy dump.
It is kick-ass map though.
Comment by Tokyo — June 25, 2007 @
Bunch of nonsense.
Comment by jouster — June 25, 2007 @
I’m sorry to inform you - Tolkien was not from the United Kingdom, he was born in South Africa and lived there for the first part of his life. Political issues forced him to move. Get your facts right… a large number of his references are actually of african terrain… sorry mate.
Comment by floodedcodeboy — June 25, 2007 @
@floodedcodeboy: yup, get your facts straight, please. Tolkien left what is now South Africa in 1895, which means he was barely 3 years old. Even though born in Bloemfontein, Tolkien was a British citizen. As such, I don’t think Tolkien had very vivid memories of the first 3 years of his life. You reckon?
Comment by Padraig — June 25, 2007 @
as padraig said, tolkien considered himself british and there are TV interviews in which he himself clearly states to camera that he based the Shire on ‘the land of his childhood’ which he makes clear is rural England, specifically the area around Oxford.
Comment by benchmark — June 25, 2007 @
I live in Greece so where the fuck is my country(not Mordor,Kand,Harrad-maybe under the sea)
Comment by nikos — June 25, 2007 @
one of the worst tolkein related stuff. the author should be ashamed for this bull crap.
Comment by iblees — June 25, 2007 @
So the vast green forests of Lothlorien and Mirkwood were actually in Scandanavia? Okaaaaaaaaaaay….
Comment by DailyRich — June 25, 2007 @
@tsk: I think he was referring to the region of great britain when he referenced the scottish highlands. not england itself.
Comment by kevin — June 25, 2007 @
Although they show Rhan as Southern Germany, the people were decidedly Norsemen (who rode horses…). Okay, it’s all a very fascinating debat to try to get into the brain of a dead man. :)
Comment by Larian LeQuella — June 25, 2007 @
Also Edoras was South of Helms Deep and North of Minas Tirith.
Comment by kevin — June 25, 2007 @
The thing I find odd is that this map turn the entire continent around. In LotR, Bree is east of the Shire, but according to this map, it’s north. While I like the way things line up, I find it hard to believe that the continents re-aligned themselves 90 degrees or that the earth tilted on its axis and started spinning another direction.
Comment by Chredon — June 25, 2007 @
Can someone tell me what happened to south east asia and southern asia?
Comment by cc — June 25, 2007 @
Didn’t sit thru all the comments - But -
Think about this - Tolkien took painstaking time and effort to develop whole languages - explicit details of the “world” around the characters - the cahracters themselves - the cultures - the different types of beings - their above mentioned ancestry and lineage_
And on and on and on with details upon details upon details_ Now with all of what he poured into The Hobbit - LOTR - Silmarillion - ask yourself - did he really stop short of creating the Map of the land by merely drawing some random squiggles on a page and be done with it ’cause he lacked the aptience or got bored or was in a hurry and wanted to be done with it and move on ?
It’s fiction and we must treat it as such_ But always - any story somehow always draws upon something personal to the writer_ So Yes - there will be analogies that can be drawn from a map of the British Isles or from the western shores of Europe_ Where did Tolkien live ? Where did he travel during his life ?
Either way - it’s still way cool to try and correlate the map_
Comment by billy bob — June 25, 2007 @
nevertheless - he was a south african!!! even if for just the first 3 years …
Comment by floodedcodeboy — June 25, 2007 @
the Shire is almost directly west of Esgaroth in Middle-Earth, however on this map the Shire is much more south it’s even further south than Mirkwood.
Comment by Magnus — June 25, 2007 @
Neat idea, but the scale doesn’t fit the map–according to this, Esgaroth is as far from the Iron Hills as it is from Mordor; yet in The Hobbit Dain made the trip with an army in a little over a week.
Comment by Jeff — June 25, 2007 @
It’s interesting to compare Tolkein’s Elves to those of another British fantasy writer who has created a world, Terry Pratchett. In younger days I was fascinated by LotR and The Hobbit, and compared M-E to Europe, though Tolkein stated that the idea came from England. Now I prefer Pratchett’s stories, to a great extent because of his world.
Comment by 124c41 — June 25, 2007 @
I have liked the idea for years, that Middle Earth might be found in our geography. I find the comments an interesting mix. Most people are forgetting 6000 years worth of drift, erosion and most dramtically, climate change. Is it really that incredible that humans living 6K- 15K years ago might have much more earth to walk? Also, the Earth being round, this flat map would naturally be skewed. I’m glad someone did it.
Comment by Zeph — June 25, 2007 @
Nice map…interesting name note though is that Gondor is the old name for Ethiopia.
Comment by Corwyn — June 25, 2007 @
[...] to Digg, I found an interesting post about the location of Middle-earth - Yes, from Lord of the [...]
Pingback by Lol@TheWeb » Blog Archive » Finding Middle-earth — June 25, 2007 @
If memory serves, JRRT and his mother left South Africa when his father died.
Comment by Anton Sherwood — June 25, 2007 @
[...] “Wow. OK, so I get double points for nerdiness (maps AND Tolkien) but I love this.” Posted on June 25th, 2007 in Interesting [...]
Pingback by Jackson Fish Market — June 25, 2007 @
[...] fun from our friends over at Strange Maps. As the post says, Tolkien didn’t create Middle Earth from thin air, it’s based upon [...]
Pingback by Very Spatial » Where is Middle-Earth? — June 25, 2007 @
Having read both the Lord of the Rings and the entire Conan mythology when I was younger, I was struck by the similarities.
The Conan novels share a similar landscape, with similarly placed major locations, and similar peoples populating similar lands.
I then concluded, and still believe, that these stories are of the same lineage, with the exploits of Conan taking place during the Age of Man, several thousand years after the events of the LotR.
Read both sets of work and tell me you don’t draw the same conclusion.
Comment by Chaos Motor — June 26, 2007 @
Wow! I’m in Gondor!!!!!
Comment by Anne — June 26, 2007 @
Si Europa fuera la Tierra Media
Mapa de la Tierra Media basado en Europa. Sería Transilvania Mordor? Rohan el sur de Alemania? Gondor el norte de Italia?
Trackback by meneame.net — June 26, 2007 @
[...] diesem Blogger war Isengard ganz in der nähe. Rohan is in southern Germany, with Edoras at the foot of the [...]
Pingback by jeremy.lonien | Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? — June 26, 2007 @
If you look at Tolkien’s own maps of Middle Earth (or at least the part featured in “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings”, you’ll notice that the sea is to the south and west, while to the north and east the land mass of Middle Earth apparently continues. In contrast, C.S. Lewis’s “Narnia” is east-facing: the sea is to the east, and the western side is landlocked.
This is probably chance, but I’ve always liked to imagine the members of the Inklings - the writer’s group to which Tolkien and Lewis belonged - dividing up an imaginary landmass between them and placing their fantasy kingdoms on it. If that were true, there might be north- and south-oriented mythological worlds created by other members out there somewhere …
Comment by AngusM — June 26, 2007 @
Wow.. this is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.!
Comment by Prof Kienstra — June 27, 2007 @
[...] Jun 27th, 2007 by kspeak Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? [...]
Pingback by where was it? « k’speak — June 28, 2007 @
[...] Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? : the map of Middle-earth overlapped with one of Europe, - The Shire is in the South-West of England; The Grey Havens are situated in Ireland. � Eriador corresponds with Brittany. � Helm�s Deep is near the Franco-German-Swiss border tripoint, Mordor is situated in Transylvania, with Mount Doom in Romania [...]
Pingback by Link-o-Rama for June 25 - 30 | False Positives — June 29, 2007 @
[...] to visit Poland, Hungary and our friends in Transylvanian Romania, really. But this map here, which places Middle Earth on the real map, says we’re actually going somewhere in the [...]
Pingback by John Borland » Off to Mordor we go — June 29, 2007 @
Does Anduin – shown here as a river from Sweden to Istria – make any geologic sense??
Comment by Anton Sherwood — July 1, 2007 @
Isn’t Grey Havens mean’t to be a port?
Comment by Colin — July 3, 2007 @
[...] Where on Earth was Middle-Earth? [...]
Pingback by The Sai Chronicles » Blog Archive » Iffa — July 4, 2007 @
Very believe able, but i think its just a coincadence to be honest. The mountain ranges are out and Isengard and Helms deep are closer, Helms Deep is south west of Isengard too.
Comment by Jack — July 5, 2007 @
Ok if anyone has Google earth, goto Alaska, south west coast and lower your altitude to about 700 ft and then press north, it will give you the very coast line of middle earth. It might take some time to see it.
Comment by Jack — July 5, 2007 @
Greetings from Minas Morgul :) Interesting concept, awakening my Tolkien mania again :)
Comment by Balazs — July 11, 2007 @
[...] 121 - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? « strange maps (tags: middle_earth maps literature geography tolkien interesting) [...]
Pingback by links for 2007-07-12 « Commonplace Book — July 12, 2007 @
I’m a big fan of Tolkien AND a devoted Hungarian - I’d be much better of seeing us as people of Rohan (as we do have a history in HORSEBACK riding.
If this map really suggests what Tolkien thinks of us, than he is sort of misleaded. I’m sorry to hear about that.
But I still adore his genius.
Comment by Franci — July 12, 2007 @
Tolkien wrote during the World Wars, and he had an Atlas. Duh! Its clearly influenced by his situation and the then current events. (Good people to the west, evil dictator to the East).
Comment by TheLord — July 13, 2007 @
re: #87
If you can’t get Google Earth, try these starters
Yukon and Kuskokwim Deltas
Where is Y-K Alaska (NASA) The map here is the base satellite image for much of Google’s maps in remote Alaska
Comment by mpb — July 16, 2007 @
[...] Middle-Earth on Earth. [...]
Pingback by Technical Difficulties « citizen geek — August 9, 2007 @
So, what’s the Middle Earth equivalent of the Iberian Peninsula?
Is no one there?
Come to think of it, maybe it’s not so bad… at least we’re left alone to live in relative peace.
Kudos on the map theory. It makes a LOT of sense if you consider the geography and even the ethnicity of the peoples living there. Not all, mind you - Eastern Europe is an amazingly beautiful country in geographic terms. Nothing like Mordor at all…
Comment by palmieres — August 17, 2007 @
America = Valinor ??
Maybe…
:D
Comment by Hojaplateada — August 18, 2007 @
ha…
Concerning your post, I’ve just returned from Khand.
And what is about USA? :)
Comment by Lord — August 23, 2007 @
[...] Tolkien didn’t create Middle-earth ex nihilo: ancient Germanic myths divide the Universe in nine worlds, inhabited by elves, dwarves, giants, etc. The world of men is the one in the middle, called Midgard, Middenheim or Middle-earth. That term doesn’t thus describe the entirety of the world Tolkien thought up. The correct term for the total world is Arda – probably derived from German Erde (’Earth’) and only first mentioned posthumously in the Silmarillion (1977); and Eä (for the whole Universe).” more [...]
Pingback by Where is middle-earth… « gimme culture — September 9, 2007 @
[...] one from strange maps. See the article, Where on Earth Was Middle-Earth for some insightful commentary. For me, one picture (or map, courtesy of Prof. Peter Bird of UCLA) [...]
Pingback by Phil Lembo › Where was Middle-Earth? — September 12, 2007 @
As someone already said, interesting comments. Especially when people try to work out a one-to-one relation to the ethnicities living in those places “now”. But I have to point out, a mountain range does not “mean” to say anything about any people who choose to live there, in various times. So stuff like “Tolkien thinks Magyars are so and so” doesn’t apply - the only thing making it appear so is our own perception of ourselves, seeking to ‘identify’ with certain visions. This goes the same for Nazi Germany: doesn’t mean that German people of today are to be considered Nazis. It’s very simple. LOTR is a work of fiction, but in our present day it is not known at all what this imaginative process really implies. Time and time again JRRT attempted to explain how it was for him, but it only comes across as being a little eccentric (that’s the pitfall, but likewise a good method to highlight something unusual). Those things in the ‘external’ history of the work represent ‘reminders’, simply ‘clues’ to the internal history of the work. It is of course fruitless to try and determine a one-to-one relation, but the internal work IS placed somewhere AS A WHOLE, otherwise it would not have been meaningful to the writer himself.
Comment by Slender Sail — September 17, 2007 @
Plus… it is a matter of time, as well as space. In merely 6,000 years (8,000 in other versions), the continents could not have drifted apart *that* much - however, the sea levels are another matter. They are increasing right now, changing the shape of the land once more. So perhaps, another final clue is needed, as to where and how, and when. But it always comes back to the Stories having made the jump into another world, as opposed to the geological/archaeological proof. Therefore, something that Tolkien didn’t know, didn’t consider when writing, but which is real in its own right. Btw, I live in Romania, so I can say that no, it is not the “idea” of Mordor, as that is supposed to have ‘passed’. The land however, gets to see many different events coming and going. By living in Romania, I can say that because people do not generally know the Romanian language, they cannot study its folklore and spiritual information in general. But we have some stuff that can help. For example stories about gods (much like the Greek), as well as different figures, who are supposed to have lived here. A figure-head for many long past cults, etc. The only problem comes when people of today attempt to ‘own’ the information for their own gain (so as to say: we are proud to be Romanian, “because”). Then it is not believable any longer. That is a self-made trap.
Comment by Slender Sail — September 17, 2007 @
To all the Hungarians, Romanians and Transylvanians…
Mordor is NOT an inherently evil land. It is just where Sauron happened to inhabit and corrupt for many years. In the Fourth Age (after the death of Sauron), King Elessar recolonizes Mordor slowly, so the land eventually heals and becomes no different from other lands of Men.
Comment by ObscureGamer — September 23, 2007 @
Aetil you don’t consider a THING…
“Khand was under the influence of Mordor and supplied it with horses, and twice came into the history of Gondor: first in the year 1944 of the Third Age when the Variags together with the Wainriders attacked Gondor, and later during the War of the Ring when they fought and died on the Pelennor Fields. While this is not directly said in the literature, it is probable that Khand gradually fell under the control of Gondor during the Fourth Age and was hostile to it no longer.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khand_%28Middle-earth%29#Khand
IF is so…THE MORDOR-KHAND BLOCK
is EXTRAORDINARILY similar to…
THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE in 1683!
And Minas Tirith is about in the SAME PLACE of VIENNA!
Maybe the TRUE KEY of “THE LORD OF THE RINGS” is ANTI-ISLAMIC?
Comment by Paolo — September 28, 2007 @
[...] read more | digg story [...]
Pingback by Where on Earth Was Middle Earth? « Movies — October 2, 2007 @
is the information here on middle earth a fact??
Comment by bluesdesignstudio — October 8, 2007 @
This is, without a doubt, the stupidest interpretation of Tolkien’s work. First of all, JRR was quite explicit when he said that Middle Earth is fictional and it’s history is not correlated to reality we live in. Also, the geography of ME is completely uncompatible to the regions of Europe.
Comment by dred — October 22, 2007 @
PROUD TO LIVE IN MORDOR!!:D:D (romania)
Comment by orange — October 24, 2007 @
I think Greece would probably be around Dol Amroth - land of Prince Imrahil. ot too shabby :-)
Comment by zz — November 2, 2007 @
Cool I live in the north of Mirkwood!!! :D (kuopio, finland)
Comment by lOtta-karol — November 3, 2007 @
I’m a silvester elf!!
Comment by lOtta-karol — November 3, 2007 @
[...] the generally small reach of their imagination.” A map, discussed earlier on this blog (#121 – Where On Earth Was Middle-Earth?) takes the parallel between Tolkien’s world and the outline [...]
Pingback by 204 - One Ring To Rule Them All, Mate « strange maps — November 18, 2007 @
Although “the shape of all lands has been changed”, the shape of the skies above has not. In the Fellowship, when the hobbits are with the wood elves, they watch “Remmirath”, the “netted stars”, followed by “red Borgil”, and “Menelvagor, the great swordsman” (pardon my spelling). These are almost certainly the Pleiades, Aldebaran, and Orion. Also, in the Silmarillian, there is talk of a sickle in the north made of 7 stars, representing the defeat of Morgoth. This sounds suspiciously like the Big Dipper
Comment by Nathan — November 19, 2007 @
[...] Where on Earth Was Middle-Earth? (from Strange Maps) [...]
Pingback by Mapping Narratives, ITP Seminar, Fall 2007 » Middle-Earth — November 19, 2007 @
While this map moves around places too much to be truly reliable and almost certainly does not represent Tolkien’s intentions, it’s still a fascinating jeu de esprit.
Comment by James Kabala — November 29, 2007 @
I’m a huge LOTR fan, and it’s really cool to see places in the world today that resemble the Middle Earth of the novels. Fascinating stuff when people make a link between fantasy and reality.
Comment by trademark registration — December 9, 2007 @
good post
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jbilou med
http://www.wowzik.com
Comment by Jbilou med — December 10, 2007 @
Thanks for this fantastic overview of Tlkien and real world. But, when I were reading Silamril and other books from Tolkien I was totaly sure that Mordor is in Romania, Bulgaria and Albania, ’cause there you can see ( find too ) many similar forms and things closly to many things from Tolkien story.
Also, for Balcan mountains, we have another name, “Old Mountain”, meaning, The Ancient.
Comment by Leon Ha — December 14, 2007 @
Although interesting it is to throw allegorical, even direct parallel relationships into Tolkien’s literature, keep in mind that Tolkien was rather upset, even offended when his literature was cast into such a mold. Indeed, one of the beauties of Tolkien literature is that one may interpret it as they will, yet do not think that his intentions were to crack on Germany using Mordor as medium.
Comment by Eric — December 17, 2007 @
The map isn`t exactly correct, and Tolkien would be turning in his grave if this is correct!
Bad show!
Comment by y-dec — December 18, 2007 @
[...] I love maps. Here’s a site that’s all about maps…Strange Maps. One of my favorites on the site is, “Where On Earth Was Middle-earth“. [...]
Pingback by Just For Fun « Love, Mom (Notes from the fridge) — December 30, 2007 @
Thanks for this map, and happy to live near Helm’s deep, I’ve always dream of it and you did it ! I had almost the same conclusion but :
I saw Mordor in Turkey and Rhun as a little Caspian sea. For the person who didn’T understand why italia (and greece) was the centre of good as he said that’s only because of Roman Empire, interpreted as heir of a former power and wiseness. Rohirrim came from the North like German came from Scandinavia milleniums ago.
The Easterlings are Turko-mongol people which always try to invade Europe (Attila, Genghis Khan, Ottomans…).
Tolkien searched a mythology for England but did a mythology for all Europe. Maybe a first sign of European nationalism ?
And no Americas are not Undying land, because Eru cuted the Undying land from the rest of the World and rebuilt the world. And so America would be the result of this building.
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Comment by park plaza hotel winter park fl — January 17, 2008 @
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Pingback by Comment on 121 - Where On Earth Was Middle-earth? by star one … | Equity Line Of Credit — January 19, 2008 @
Hey what about Iberia?!?!?!?!?
Comment by Juan — February 1, 2008 @
I hope all you morons realize that LOTR takes place after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire. Notice the Dark Ages elements.
Comment by blade — March 11, 2008 @
I want my ring!!!
Comment by frodo bagins — March 17, 2008 @
give me the fucking ring . its my precious ring my precious MY PRECIOUS AHHHHH SHALABASABASA SHABADOO
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
alawala alawala alawala!!!!!!!! i iz a terrorist!!! i bomb ur ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
LOTR SUCKS!!!!! LICK MY ASS U LOTR GEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
FOR ASLAND AND FOR NNNAAAARRRRNNNIIIIAAAAAAA
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
IMA HOBBIT, I HAVE HAIR ON MY FEET AND MY ASS!!! DOES THIS MAKE ME A REAL HOBBIT!!!!!!!!!!?
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
i …………….AM ……………. BEOWULF
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
THIS …… IS……… SPARTA!!!!!!!!!
SPARTANS WAT’S YOUR PROFESSION!!!!!!
Comment by smeagle/gol — March 17, 2008 @
WELL I CANT COOK AND BOB CAN KINDA CLEAN SO THAT KINDA LIKE MY PROFESSION
Comment by SPARTAN 1 — March 17, 2008 @
I LIVE IN NEWYORK 51ST STREET BRENTON AVE PLEASE COME FOR ME IF U WANT BRING YOUR ARMIES I WILL THRIW YOU INTO THE FIRES OF MORDOR I HAV THE RING!!!!!!1 I AM AN ENT
Comment by SPARTAN 1 — March 17, 2008 @
The Americas is the Undying Land. Period.
Comment by Annariel — March 24, 2008 @
this means we turks are orcs or haradrim eh?so be it then:))also the word ”uruk” means family in old turkish.and can the minas tirith be vienna?ı think there are strong similarities between war on fields of pelennor and siege of vienna.
Comment by çağrı57 — March 27, 2008 @
[...] stronie Strange Maps znalelimy niezwyk, fizyczn map rdziemia profesora Birda z Uniwersytetu Kalifornijskiego w [...]
Pingback by Elendilion - Tolkienowski Serwis Informacyjny » Blog Archive » Jeszcze jedna mapa, ale jaka niezwyka… — March 29, 2008 @
You might enjoy looking at my own theory on this, which does _not_ deform any landmass and tries to keep metrics (i.e. distances) coherent. I also tried to base my conjecture as far as possible on JRRT’s own words.
http://www.geocities.com/otsoandor/WasM-eE.htm
http://www.geocities.com/otsoandor/Bel_Eri.htm
Comment by Ronald Kyrmse — April 8, 2008 @
this map is wrong because distances over some places are too great while some are too short. whoever made this map couldnt do it properly….
Comment by asdasd — May 1, 2008 @
Yeah, feels good living near to Southern Rohan! ;D Rohan rocks forever!
Comment by Alienor — May 11, 2008 @