It’s more than three months now since Belgium held a general election, and the federal kingdom by the North Sea is still without a national government. The impasse following the June 10 ballot is due to the seemingly insurmountable differences between Flemish and Walloon politicians.
Belgium has always been a difficult proposition with semi-continuous linguistic strife between Dutch-speaking Flemings (roughly 60% of the population) and French-speaking Walloons (almost 40%) ever since its inception in 1830. The gap between both sides has widened considerably since the start of a gradual process of federalisation in the early nineteen seventies.
To offset the oppositional nature of this essentially binary federation, the Belgian federal system is extremely intricate, balancing territorial and personal definitions of citizenship. The result is no less than six governments:
* one for Wallonia (dealing with territorial aspects such as land management);
* one for the French-speaking community (competent in personal matters such as education and health care);
* one for Flanders (which merged the personal and territorial competences);
* one for Brussels (territorial; as Brussels is officially bilingual, the Flemish and Francophone governments both exert their personal competences there);
* one for the tiny German-speaking minority in the east of Wallonia (personal, since the Walloon government is territorial);
* and the federal government, to be composed of equally many Francophone as Flemish ministers. The prime minister, although necessarily either Dutch- or French-speaking, must be considered as a linguistic eunuch.
All this can’t hide that the main problem in Belgium remains the fact that Flemings and Walloons (or at least their politicians) can’t get along. In the best of times, Flanders and Wallonia co-exist by ignoring each other, in the worst of times they clash because they have two different outlooks on what Belgium ought to be. Flemish politicians insist on further institutional reforms, delegating more power to the sub-nations, to improve good governance. Francophone politicians see this as creeping separatism and vehemently oppose any reform that could be seen as damaging the Belgian state (or Francophone interests).
The resulting gridlock for some observers indicates that Belgium has reached the end of its tether. Although the present impasse seems to meet with apathy from the general public, this is not an improbable proposition – were it not for Brussels. The capital of Belgium isn’t just also the capital of Europe: it’s also the capital of Flanders, which maintains its parliament there. But 85% of the bruxellois are Francophone, and thus not inclined to think kindly of incorporation into Flanders. Annexation by Wallonia is rather impractical, as Brussels is completely surrounded by Flemish territory.
Maybe an international task force of chess grand-masters and Nobel prize winners under the auspices of the Dalai Lama could find a solution everybody could live with. Barring that, another possibility would be to let nature take its course: if global warming will indeed lead to higher sea levels and if Belgium could wait another couple of thousand years for its next government, that is.
This map outlines the latter solution to the Belgian conundrum: just wait until almost all of low-lying Flanders is submerged, leaving only some of its higher parts above water, i.e. the Heuvelland (‘Hill Country’), the Ile de Grammont (the ‘Isle of Geraardsbergen’) and bits of and near Limburg, the Flemish province furthest from the coast (with ‘Hasselt-sur-Mer’ and ‘Tirlemont-les-Bains’). That this map probably is the work of a Francophone Belgian, can further be deduced from the fact that Brussels is not submerged, but connected to Wallonia via a land corridor…
This map was sent to me by Bruno Pragnell, who could not vouch for its origins and who finds the joke “probably a bit too cruel” to be suitable for this website. Not at all, Bruno! I’m hopeful Flemings have enough sense of humour (or swimming skills) to not be insulted by this cartographic cartoon.
I’ve been to Belgium quite a few times and have a real love for the place, so the fractionation is unfortunate. I remember the division really being illustrated when I met a family of Flemish cyclists on a ferry to Zeebrugge: they had a set of maps which starkly ended at the Wallonian border – the clear implication being that Flemish cyclists would never go there.
Comment by Ian Walker — September 17, 2007 @ 7:06 am
That’s surely not a French map (the Département du Nord is partly under water too !)…
Comment by Baptiste — September 17, 2007 @ 7:17 am
Matters aren’t that simple Ian: as Flandres and Wallonia both have their own territorial and cultural (also education and sports) policy, simple things like cycling maps often only consist of the one part of the country the map is made in (often Flandres).
Furthermore, people in Belgium generally don’t think Belgium will stop to exist: the largest party, the catholic-democrats of CD&V (catholic democratic and flemish), went to the elections together with the separistic N-VA (new flemish alliance), but the votes for this separistic party only consist of 8% of the flemish people. The Waloons also have their nationalist party by the way.
And talking about Brussels in the blogpost: as Brussels is a seperate region of Belgium, Flanders shouldn’t have made it their capital as they don’t have any territorial power there, only cultural. Getting confused? We are too.
Comment by sander — September 17, 2007 @ 7:36 am
Here in Luxembourg (the country, not the belgian “region”) people often say “if belgium wasn’t there, we would have access to the sea”. I guess the Wallons say the same thing about Flandern.
Comment by Fireball — September 17, 2007 @ 7:39 am
If you weren’t there, we would have access to.. ehm… Germany? You’re as much an “accident de histoire” as Belgium is, as Luxembourg should’ve been a part of Belgium…
Comment by sander — September 17, 2007 @ 7:45 am
Baptiste, raising sea levels don’t happen exclusively to one country, so if the waters rise that high, Nord will also be underwater.
For a more precise idea of what is supposed to be happening in this map, use : http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=51.0241,3.5431&z=9&m=7
Comment by Sophie — September 17, 2007 @ 7:56 am
I’ve seen this map several times, and I must admit it makes me laugh. But the subject of global warmth and the raise of the oceans is quite often discussed in the North of the country, so I’m not sure how the Flemish would react to this map.
Comment by modobs — September 17, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
[...] Interesting piece about the current fractious state of Belgium. [...]
Pingback by markbradshaw.net » Belgium — September 17, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
I’m an American who just got back from my first trip to Belgium a couple of months ago. Thus, I am an expert on Belgian culture and politics. ;-)
I was surprised by many things while I was there, but two things in particular. First, not only were most people I encountered in Brussels Walloons, they didn’t speak Flemish at all (one very nice waitress spoke French and Spanish, but nary a word of Flemish). This was unfortunate, as I actually knew some Dutch at that point (having just spent a week in the Netherlands) but barely three words of French. Second, I made the mistake of talking about the Flemish/Walloon conundrum in a chocolate shop in Brugges (well, the real mistake I made was asking the chocolatier if she only spoke Flemish…while we were conversing in English!). I got an earful about what she really thought about Walloons (she summed it up with “arrogant” and “lazy”), at a sufficient volume that her co-worker came out from the back and chimed in with “stupid”! I had to back out of the shop — I think they were still ranting after I left.
Comment by Frank Anderson — September 17, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
[...] Wallonie-sur-Mer. While we’re on the subject of Belgium, what the country would look like if the Flemish part was submerged, leaving only French-speaking areas. Plus an interesting few facts on how many governments the nation has. (Strange Maps) [...]
Pingback by Tinyplanet » Links of the day — September 17, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
@5: It’s actually more or less opposite. A large chunk of Belgium actually historically belongs to Luxembourg. This goes for the Belgian province of Luxembourg (which was part of Luxembourg until Belgium became independant), aswell as several other parts (for instance all of the old duchy of Brabant, which was part of the realm of Luxembourg in the middle ages).
Comment by Bismarck — September 17, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
Yes, my hometown is still on it. *pumps fist in triumph*
(And yes, I am Flemish, and I am not insulted by the map.)
Comment by Elisabeth — September 17, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
There was an article in the Economist recently that suggested Belgium just break itself up:
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9767681
Comment by Michael — September 17, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
The so called “Tirlemont-les-bains” is not part of Limburg, yet belongs to Flemish-Brabant. It’s original, Flemish, name is “Tienen”. Being Flemish myself, and living in the-apparently-lost city of Antwerp, have seen the map before and i don’t feel offended at all.
Comment by Horta — September 17, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
Remark to the comment of Frank Anderson:
Do you know that the most choosen name in Brussels is not Jan Pieter or Jean Pierre but Mohammed ;-)
(Statistically proved)
Comment by Wolfgang Thoma — September 17, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
6 conflicting governments? DOH!
Stupid Flanders.
Had to be said.
Comment by nygdan — September 17, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
Two things:
To Wolfgang: Do you have a source for that?
About the map: Never mind Belgum, I notice the Netherlands (”Pays-Bas”) is smaller then France was left in the WWI “worst-case scenario” map posted on this site earlier!
Comment by Lurker — September 17, 2007 @ 11:03 pm
[...] There’s a humorous, Walloon-slanted, take on the problem on Strange Maps that trusts in global warming to sort out the problem: (Strange Maps) [...]
Pingback by Flemings vs Walloons « Missives, Musings & Miscellany — September 17, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
I’ve thought for some time that a Belgian-style system of government(s) is one of the only semi-logical solutions for Iraq.
There’s beauty in simplicity, but sometimes it’s just too simple to be practical, unfortunately.
I love your site, by the way.
Comment by garybutterworth — September 17, 2007 @ 11:47 pm
And yet, this cobbled-together entity has arrogated to itself eternal jurisdiction over Human Rights throughout the galaxy. At least against Americans.
Comment by Cappy — September 18, 2007 @ 1:34 am
#15; if I deal with this linguistic tomfoolerly I would name my child Mohmammed rather than trying to figure out the appropirate dutch or french version.
Why is it linguistic minorities so annoying (Catlans, Quebecois, Welsh?) They will all be speaking English in two generations if the EU succeeds. Could it be that this linguistic nationalism has something to do with job protection: if you require linguistic skills you don’t have to worry about the polish plumber?
Comment by charlie — September 18, 2007 @ 2:54 am
Cartographic accuracy,
Herstal (near Liège, called in Dutch Luik and in German Lüttich!) is lying on the left bank of the river Meuse (Maas in Dutch), not on the rightbank as the map suggest.
Just a detail :-)
Comment by Gérard — September 18, 2007 @ 7:04 am
Don’t worry, the map is not insulting… I would like to state clear that not all Flemmings are separatists. I love Belgium and do not feel the need to sepparate from our Walloon friends. Objective economists (not the Flemmish nationalist sponsored Warande-group) have calculated that splitting up the country would be good for everybody, except the Belgians, the Walloons and the Flemmish.
Comment by stndgrv — September 18, 2007 @ 8:43 am
Lurker: here’s for you, regarding source of babies’ first names in Brussels nowadays, look at http://statbel.fgov.be/figures/d22a_fr.asp?r=8 (Belgian Statistics office). Actually, not only Mohamed has been the “most chosen name” for at least 6 years, but 6 over the 10 most given names in Brussels are muslims (7 if counting “Adam”, which is a christian but also a muslim name, and not very popular amongst Belgians). Actually, if you look thoroughly at all the names of babies born in the Brussels area (I did, for a text I’ll soon post on my blog), you’ll notice at least 40% are muslims.
Which is why, in a way, the current quarrel (over the city’s future…) between Flemish and Walloon people makes me laugh. An hollow laugh.
Comment by pistache — September 18, 2007 @ 12:19 pm
[...] und zwar in Zusammenhang mit dem Strange Maps-Blog. Dort findet sich aus aktuellem Anlaß nun noch eine recht radikaler Lösungsvorschlag, der aber nur auf wallonischer Seite Gefallen finden dürfte. (Den Radsportfans bleibt dann [...]
Pingback by kartentisch » 100 Tage ohne Regierung — September 18, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
My family used to vacation on the North coast of France in La Rochelle so it is very interesting to see such an old map of the area.
Comment by Texas Gifts — September 18, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
I once found a village on the dutch border, where one side of the street accepted Dutch Guilders, while the other, Belgian Francs. Work it out, people!
Comment by lordhutton — September 18, 2007 @ 6:11 pm
It always makes me furious when I hear that Brussels is only inhabited by foreigners, that is to say Arabs in the mind of a lot of people. My son has a name which is suitable in both cultures (Arabic and French)…do you consider him as a foreigner or as a Belgian? I am fed up with those people who consider people of foreign origins BUT born in Belgium as second-class citizens! We are Belgians TOO, why do you keep on watching the origins of names? Outrageous…Brussels is multicultural but also inhabited by a lot of Belgian French speakers, whatever their origin!!!!
Comment by Leila — September 19, 2007 @ 7:23 am
Leila,
Sorry, that’s not the point of this blog, but I’ll answer you.
You’re fed up with people that consider other people as second class citizen? Very well, I can understand being “fed up”. I myself am fed up with islam, fed up with not recognizing parts of my city because of it, and fearing that me or my children will become some day second class citizens in our own country – if the wonderfully “tolerant” islamic system of dhimma ever come to us. Some belgians are already leaving neighbourhoods because of it.
So… Why watching names? Because there is no other way of trying to assess the importance of the demographic change in Brussel. You can see, when you take the bus or the metro, whole school classes with not one northern european-looking child and feel that something’s strange, since “immigration is officially stopped”, but it doesn’t give you a proper idea of the phenomenon. Belgium doesn’t have, doesn’t allow “communitary statistics”, so it’s very easy for politicians to dismiss any concern with contempt – no problem there, folks, you’re just a bunch of racists etc. Racist? We’re talking not only about a change of population, but a change of culture, maybe of civilisation in the long term, you can’t stop people feeling bad about that.
So the only way I found to try to look objectively at the extend of the issue? looking at names. Not PC at all, I know, and I don’t care. For ages, foreigners who’ve truly been trying to integrate at least gave one local name to their kids – that’s most usually the case for immigrants from China, Vietnam, and most of Africans. That demonstrate a wish to be Belgian, to belong here. And that simple gesture smoothes lots of things. But most islamic people don’t do it…
But I tried to be very, very conservative about it, Leila, and – even if I’m sure you still won’t like it – names that were both islamic and european where usually not taken into account. Or affected with coefficient. Hence my claim that there’s “at least” 40% babies born to muslim families in Brussels nowadays. You call that “multicultural”? I tend to associate “multicultural” to “lots of culture, from all around the world”. But in modern Europe, “multicultural society” tends to mean one thing only “society becoming slowly islamic” :rolleye:
Comment by pistache — September 19, 2007 @ 8:12 am
As an inhabitant of Hasselt-Sur-Mer, sea levels would have to rise by 70 to 80 meters before my city becomes a beach town. Very unlikely and until then, we will just have to do with makeshift beaches that have become so popular in inner cities these days.
A more realistic rise of 12 meters though, would flood large parts of Flanders and anyone living there would have to flee south. And that in itself is a very scary thought.
In the Belgian context, it would not only be a human tragedy but also ironic.
Currently, the Flemish politicians are trying everything to stop the inflow of Francophones into the Dutch speaking regions. A permanent flooding of Flanders however would not only halt such a movement but reverse it. Wallonia would be overwhelmed by Dutch speakers.
But if sea levels would rise as high as on this map, the striped areas on the map would probably be a very good indication of where most of the Flemish refugees (and probably also those from the Netherlands) would move too.
Yet even with such a huge displacement of people, the current intricate Belgian system of many governments would be very well prepared to continue running a smaller Belgium.
As a matter of fact, we would probably have seven governments as the Flemish one would have to be split into two: a territorial and cultural government.
Comment by Patrik — September 19, 2007 @ 10:16 am
for lordhutton: you’re mixing two things up. In Belgium you could only pay with Belgian Francs before the introduction of the euro. But in the south of The Netherlands there is a Belgian enclave called Baarle-Hertog, which is so intertwined with the Dutch community of Baarle-Nassau that, yes, in some streets one side is officially Dutch and accepted Guilders and the other side officially Belgian and accepted Francs. Heck, in some places the border runs right through houses! (and to complicate matters even further: in the enclave there are a few exclaves: Dutch territory completely surrounded by Belgian territory which is in its turn completely surrounded by Dutch territory!) But this has nothing to do with the current political stalemate in Belgium.
Comment by Ludwig — September 19, 2007 @ 10:26 am
To the blog owner and reader(s):
Sorry my question about sourcing factoids let of such a huge rant.
PS. I am not going to try and reply or pass judgement against it, since I believe I can’t be neutral on the subject.
Comment by Lurker — September 19, 2007 @ 11:57 am
dear mr. pistache:
The only thing worse than racist flems are racist wallons. GFY. Make sure you remember all the arabs and muslims who died to liberate your little country against the germans — twice.
I love the fact that these people complain about all the brown people taking over brussels, then move to the suburbs. It’s called white flight, people. Welcome to the 20th century. Every city in America has to deal with it.
Comment by charlie — September 19, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
I thought that our problems in Jerusalem (Arabs,Israelis/Jews,Moslems, Christians) were complicated. But I see that things are just as bad in Europe. Yet listen to them lecture us !!!!!
Comment by David — September 19, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
We do have some issues in Belgium, yet still we avoid trying to solve them with suicide bombings or huge walls. Quite a difference I guess…
Comment by Horta — September 19, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
I hope that the Belgians work it out between themselves. The alternative would lead to chaos. Make the best of what you have !
Comment by atrebatus — September 19, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
The only hope that I see for this kind of problem … currently highlighted in Belgium, but also an issue in Spain, in France, in the UK, Azerbhajan, Aremenia … is the abandonment of the nation-state in favour of smaller “ethno-cultural” provinces within larger federations such as the European Union.
In-migration remains problematic: rights of citizenship locally defined?
Comment by Jennifer in BC — September 19, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
Oh dc`1
Comment by my_software_kit — September 19, 2007 @ 8:15 pm
my brother lives in Antwerp and keep saying how different it is from America where he original came from..
Comment by michael — September 19, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
Charlie: Sure, the problem is racists… :rolleye: I found today this article, and agree very much with it: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-problem-isnt-racism-its-the-tidal-wave-of-immigrants-1071385.html
Note: remembering “all the arabs who died to liberate my country from the Germans, twice”?? Here’s a good example of how History is re-written in Eurabia: by saying Arabs freed Europe from the Germans. And keep mum about al-Husseini or the Hansar SS division, of course.
(Interesting, by the way, how casualties amongst the meagre french african armies are supposed to earn respect for muslims, while hundreds of thousands of deaths amongst the Americans, the one who really were essential to our freedom, earn them mostly contempt on the part of my fellow citizens nowadays… Sick.)
Horta: no suicide bombing here yet, true, perhaps because we’ve been too useful to them? But we’ve allowed quite a few suicide bombers (think murderers of com. Massoud, think M. Delgauque,…). Some plots were found before it was too late, too. And some people think that it’s “only a matter of time” before Belgium knows it: http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2007/09/brussels-sprouting-islamist-problem-1.html
Comment by pistache — September 19, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Dear Pitasche:
How you little countries have no sense of history. I did enjoy the article so much. Or to quote my long dead great-great-great-great-grandfather in NYC: NO DOGS OR IRISH NEED APPLY.
150 years ago we were worried about the flood of Irish taking over America. 100 years ago it was a flood of Jews and Italians. 75 years ago it was Negros moving North. 50 years ago it was African-Americans demanding their rights.
The world changes, buddy. Better get used to it. I see you started to learn English, so that is a start. But repeating racist shibboleths from long ago don’t work too well. To wit: Oh, they breed like rats. They are scary. They depress property values. They have funny names and won’t change them. I can’t understand what they say when they prey….they steal our women…they are all terrorists.
Of course, I forgot how well you Euros treated the last religious minority that was around…..but I am sure that is different.
I personally hate arabs. They smell bad. But at least I know what my hate is. Perhaps my children won’t hate them as much as I do. Your children, I am afraid (and given your population rates, perhaps you are of the other persuasion) will learn to only hate them more.
Comment by charlie — September 20, 2007 @ 1:15 am
Being from Brussels and Flemish (dutch speaking), future seems good for me and my family on this map. And by the way my mother in law will be flooded by the “Océan du Nord” ;-) So I have have enough sense of humour not to be insulted by this cartoon.
Comment by Johan — September 20, 2007 @ 8:42 am
Belgium: what happens when Dutch Catholics split off, only to realize that they don’t want to be French either.
Comment by Sam — September 20, 2007 @ 9:44 am
Let us compare the French-speaking inhabitants of HBV (Halle-Brussel-Vilvoorde) with an American who rented a villa in the French-speaking part of Belgium .
He could’nt understand that the Frech-speaking house-owner after 4 years was not able to speak English ! What a shame!!!
Comment by p.j. — September 21, 2007 @ 6:02 pm
i guess american people don’t have to comment us on flemisch people feeling bad that people who come to live in the flemisch part don’t want to learn or try to speak dutch. If u don’t speak english in the states no one understands u or wants to help u in stores, hotels,… whatever. Flemisch people have always been very tolerant on that matter and always try to help people one way or an other,… but in the end, if people don’t make an effort to blend in or try to communicate with locals in their own language the locals will loose their tolerance,…
the flemish part off belgium wanted to get rid off the dutch in 1830’s so other countries decided to put it together with a french speaking part to form an other nation called belgium,… guess now we are sick and tired to be in a forced mariage.
i guess a nice european state would be fine,… a USE, united states of europe,… and belgium devided in a flemish and walloon state,… and brussels like a washington dc,… a capital region,… but i don’t think that as well the french, the germans and the english would want to be a part off that,… they like to keep their sovereign state i guess,…? i don’t know,…
then talking about immigration,… i don’t know a country,… please tell me if i am wrong,… that is as tolerant to immigrants as belgium,… if u want to move to the us, u need a greencard, if u go to australia u need to proove u will be able to earn enough money for having a good life,… if u come to belgium and u want to live here they give u money,… i know i made my statements onesided and black and white but i am not gonna write a book here,…
but one thing,… my parents have been fighting for education in dutch so flemish kids would have as much chances as french speaking kids,… i am not gonna give up their fight,… can u imagine that before 1970 the officers off the belgian army who had mostly a french heritage, like most nobelman have in belgium, gave their orders to their troops (mostly dutch speaking so flemish soldiers) in french and told: et pour les flamands la meme chose,…
but hey,… i don’t think about all that stuff,… just when they ask me what i think about it,… in belgium or the flemish part for sure, most citizens just want a new government and are not interested in the how or what,… they just think: what’s the fuzz about,… :-)
Comment by shoot — September 23, 2007 @ 5:47 am
pistache, such a strange man who sees that flemish and walloons (1 and supposed only people) have difficulties to get along, but who wants to make believe that muslims are just one undivided people ready to take over Brussels…
Comment by Benoit — September 23, 2007 @ 11:51 am
To Charlie: “Welcome to the 20th century”??? I don’t know what country you live in, but I think we are already living in the 21st century since a couple of years… :-)
Comment by Ludwig — September 24, 2007 @ 9:21 am
This map is beautiful.
But it is also a useful illustration, namely of the border between flatland (sea on this map) and hills (the land part of this map) and the fact that it runs just north of the language border.
Granted, the map does take some creative liberties: in reality, the flatland border is quite straight near Brussels, running just north of it; and Hasselt is definitely in flat country.
Comment by Reinier — September 25, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Wolfgang, I think that was the joke he was making. That Belgium was only just catching up (in the 21st century) to the 20th century phenomenon of “white flight”.
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, just pointing out that was probably intentional.
Comment by yeahyeahyeah — September 26, 2007 @ 8:54 am
As an inhabitant of Flanders, I’m definately not insulted, or even just upset with this map. And, as said before, even if both poles totally melt, it would still take a lot of tectonic activity to make such an extreme situation come to pass.
And the situation is confusing, to say the least, but it has been like this before, and probably they will come up with the same solution as ever: a big public name-calling (in progress right now), after which both sides get something they want, and give up something else in return. And afterwards they both claim that it’s the best compromise they could get out of the whole mess. Since Belgium is one of the more prosperous countries on the globe, even after several cycles of this, it’s probably not all that bad of a solution.
I do disagree with shoot on some points. My father, both grandfathers and their fathers were all in the military, and they actually deny the whole “et pour les flamands la même chose”-story. Which doesn’t prove that it didn’t happen in some batallions or regiments, but it does at least show that it wasn’t universal either.
And the whole “Belgium being cobbled together by other states”-story is definately not true as well. At the time, the culture was much more cohesive than it was now. And even now, I think many people underestimate how apart the belgian culture is from that of the surrounding countries.
That’s not to say that I don’t appreciate the past achievements of those who vied for the acceptance of Dutch as an official language, and made sure there was education in the local language, even though I think that those fighting the “flemish battle” right now are obsessing over details which would better be solved with a cooler mind.
Comment by filip — September 27, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
[...] Gevonden via de weblog Strange maps, waar nog veel meer curieuze en hilarische kaarten te vinden zijn, zoals deze kattenkaart en een kaart van Wallonië aan Zee. [...]
Pingback by » Verenigd Europa - Laterna — October 11, 2007 @ 11:05 am
[...] follow-up on map #176, portraying the end of Belgium via the drowning of Flanders. Considering that Belgium is a slightly [...]
Pingback by 184 - A Belgocentric Map of Europe « strange maps — October 17, 2007 @ 12:37 am
I’m Flemish, and like almost all other Flemings, I’m not at all insulted by the map. People talk about it and the general opinion is that it’s just, eh, interesting.
“I’m an American who just got back from my first trip to Belgium a couple of months ago. Thus, I am an expert on Belgian culture and politics. ;-)
I was surprised by many things while I was there, but two things in particular. First, not only were most people I encountered in Brussels Walloons, they didn’t speak Flemish at all (one very nice waitress spoke French and Spanish, but nary a word of Flemish). This was unfortunate, as I actually knew some Dutch at that point (having just spent a week in the Netherlands) but barely three words of French. Second, I made the mistake of talking about the Flemish/Walloon conundrum in a chocolate shop in Brugges (well, the real mistake I made was asking the chocolatier if she only spoke Flemish…while we were conversing in English!). I got an earful about what she really thought about Walloons (she summed it up with “arrogant” and “lazy”), at a sufficient volume that her co-worker came out from the back and chimed in with “stupid”! I had to back out of the shop — I think they were still ranting after I left.”
Comment by Frank Anderson — September 17, 2007 @
Lol, so funny. People visit Belgium once (they go see the Atomium, have some fries and go buy chocolate in Bruges) and think they know all about it.
FYI: Bruges is either written the English way (Bruges), the French way (also Bruges) or the Flemish way (Brugge).
“6 conflicting governments? DOH!
Stupid Flanders.
Had to be said.”
Comment by nygdan — September 17, 2007 @
First of all: the six governments are not conflicting. The Flemings and Walloons are conflicting, in a way, also politically. But there are only two sides in this, not six.
Second: I don’t understand why you say, “stupid Flanders”. How is it exclusively our fault that Flemings and Walloons don’t get along very well?
“My family used to vacation on the North coast of France in La Rochelle so it is very interesting to see such an old map of the area.”
Comment by Texas Gifts — September 18, 2007 @
This map is not old, it’s fictional. And France is not Belgium, not at all, so this really doesn’t have to do anything with it.
“I once found a village on the dutch border, where one side of the street accepted Dutch Guilders, while the other, Belgian Francs. Work it out, people!”
Comment by lordhutton — September 18, 2007 @
You’re a tad bit behind. We all use Euros now, you know. Haven’t seen a Belgian Franc in years. And about what you said: this is the way things work at borders. One side of the border is part of a country, the other side of the border is part of another country, hence the other currency they use. Very obvious, if you think about it.
“Belgium: what happens when Dutch Catholics split off, only to realize that they don’t want to be French either.”
Comment by Sam — September 20, 2007 @
We all know things were much, much more complicated than that. :-)
Comment by Greet — October 21, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
If I’m not mistaken this map was the result of Isabelle Durand’s words after or during a debate in reaction to Flemish independance. Part of the problem is the so-called solidarity, tax transfers from Flanders to Walloonia. In response she said something in the likes that ‘Belgians’ (including Flemings) should focus on the ecological problems because without compliance to Kyoto and an ecologic policy Flanders will be Flooded. Then Walloonia will have to ’share its wealth and territory with flemings’. Making it an excuse for these Selfish Flemings to put the ’solidarity’ into question…sort of a; you must retain solidarity unquestioned because you’ll need us when the great flood arrives.
Offended by the map? Yes and No. I’ve turned it into another reason for independance: Delta Works without being slowed down by those ‘lazy idiots’.
Comment by BenKosher — November 11, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
I’m a Brit who’s lived in Belgium for a couple of years. First of all, it’s nice to live in a country where the majority of the population want it to stay together (the UK wants to split; see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/26/nunion26.xml).
I havn’t lived here for half a dozen lifetimes, so I certainly wouldn’t dare claim that I’ve understood the place. But, although Belgium is united by superb beer, insane buraucracy, and the King, I find the real thing that unites the two halves is dislike: the Flemish and Walloons may dislike each other, but they seem to dislike everyone else even more.
Comment by inquisitor — November 14, 2007 @ 10:25 pm
Lol, funnily put. Not sure if you’re right about everything though, especially not about that dislike thing.
Comment by Greet — November 15, 2007 @ 1:11 am
I guess the “dislike” thing is something I’ve felt comparing Flemish and Walloons I’ve met with the various native nationalities in the UK. Still, at least Belgians don’t kill each other.
Comment by inquisitor — November 15, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Quite depressing how an interesting map of the complexities of history and movements of peoples and borders leads to a diatribe against ‘the other’. Whether they be from Ireland or Africa or Asia or from former Soviet States and/or (apparently) subscribe to a specific religious belief that is the latest puritanism.
Comment by Janie — November 25, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
[...] Wallonie-sur-Mer [...]
Pingback by Thomas Reiter, Blog » Blog Archiv » Sonderbare Landkarten — December 9, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
We have a governement, finally! What i like to say: i’m flemish but i’m proud to be a Belgian.
Comment by Lalalala — December 23, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
Just to explain …
This map was published during summer 2007 in a Belgian french-speaking newspaper, “Le Soir”, for several days. Under it, there was the note “Bientôt, on ne devra plus parler de séparatisme” (Soon, we won’t need to continue discuss about separatism). In accordance to “Le Soir”’s way of information, it wanted to take the attention of readers about two important concerns (Global Warming and Flemish Separatism) in a humourous but still accurate way. Many articles were published about what French-speaking Belgians should do against Flemish nationalism -reduce their public expenses, relaunch the economy, stop political clientelism, simplify their institutional system, …- to try to solve the crisis. Just before Christmas, a “provisional” government was set up, while yesterday (20 march 2008) a “final” government, where the reforms were agreed between French-speakers and Flemish people.
Many Belgians have been afraid that their country was splitting up (do someone remember “Bye-bye Belgium”?). Now, wait and see what the polititians will do …
How I now this? I live in Brussels… but I am Italian.
Comment by P.F. — March 21, 2008 @ 10:26 am
“Why is it linguistic minorities so annoying (Catlans, Quebecois, Welsh?)”
As someone of Québécois origin (though I live in the United States), I can tell you that my people did not ask to become part of the British Empire. They were attacked again and again by the British before finally being conquered in 1760. Imagine if your homeland were conquered by a foreign nation, who tried to impose its own language and culture upon you? Would you like it? Heck, isn’t that what a lot of Brits accuse the EU of trying to do?
Comment by James M. — June 18, 2008 @ 10:12 pm
thanks
Comment by hero — October 15, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
[...] map excerpt of the environs of Jerusalem is strangely reminiscent of this one, showing Belgium partially submerged along ethnic lines. Both maps solve the seemingly intractible [...]
Pingback by 367 - Bethlehem to Ramallah by Boat « Strange Maps — March 14, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
thank you
Comment by Tony — May 4, 2009 @ 3:07 am
thanks for this map..
good
luck
Comment by Solomon — May 11, 2009 @ 8:37 am
merci
Comment by aspicco . — May 17, 2009 @ 5:36 am
This map – and the responses provoked by it – are quite interesting. As a Flemish American I am not unbiased. But it seems ironic to me that we as Americans espouse “one person = one vote” democracy for everyone else in the world except for the Flemish. In Belgium the minority (30+%) Walloons can VETO any and all legislation from the Flemish (ca 60%). That and the fact that >40% of working Walloons are supported by the Belgian state – which taxes the Flemings to keep the Walloons comfortable. That is the crux of the problem. Please see my blog for more of the historical background.
Comment by David Baeckelandt — May 30, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
Vielen Dank
Comment by moon — July 3, 2009 @ 4:39 am
Muchas gracias
Comment by sun — July 4, 2009 @ 7:10 am