Strange Maps

October 30, 2007

193 – The Border Between the ‘Two Englands’

Filed under: Uncategorized — strangemaps @ 7:39 pm

england2410_468x8161.jpg 

 In Great Britain as in the US, two cultural sub-nations identify themselves (and the other) as North and South. The US’s North and South are quite clearly delineated, by the states’ affiliations during the Civil War (which in the east coincides with the Mason-Dixon line). That line has become so emblematic that the US South is referred to as ‘Dixieland’.

There’s no similarly precise border in Great Britain, maybe because the ‘Two Englands’ never fought a civil war against each other.There is, however, a place used as shorthand for describing the divide, with the rougher, poorer North and wealthier, middle-to-upper-class South referring to each other as ‘on the other side of the Watford Gap’.

Not to be confused with the sizeable town of Watford in Hertfordshire, Watford Gap is a small village in Northamptonshire. It was named for the eponymous hill pass that has facilitated travel east-west and north-south since at least Roman times (cf. Watling Street, now passing through it as the A5 motorway). Other routes passing through the Gap are the West Coast Main Line railway, the Grand Union Canal and the M1, the UK’s main North-South motorway.

In olden times, the Gap was the location of an important coaching inn (operating until closure in approximately 2000 as the Watford Gap Pub), and nowadays it has the modern equivalent in a service station – which happened to be the first one in the UK – on the M1, the main North-South motorway in the UK.

Because of its function as a crossroads, its location on the main road and its proximity to the perceived ‘border’ between North and South, the Watford Gap has become the colloquial separator between both. Other such markers don’t really exist, so the border between North and South is quite vague. Until now, that is.

It turns out the divide is more between the Northwest and the Southeast: on this map, the line (which, incidentally, does cross the Watford Gap –  somewhere in between Coventry and Leicester) runs from the estuary of the Severn (near the Welsh-English border) to the mouth of the Humber. Which means that a town like Worcester is firmly in the North, although it’s much farther south than the ‘southern’ town of Lincoln.

At least, that’s the result of a Sheffield University study, which ‘divided’ Britain according to statistics about education standards, life expectancy, death rates, unemployment levels, house prices and voting patterns. The result splits the Midlands in two. “The idea of the Midlands region adds more confusion than light,” the study says.

The line divides Britain according to health and wealth, separating upland from lowland Britain, Tory from Labour Britain, and indicates a £100.000 house price gap – and a year’s worth of difference in life expectancy (in case you’re wondering: those in the North live a year less than those in the South).

The line does not take into account ‘pockets of wealth’ in the North (such as the Vale of York) or ‘pockets of poverty’ in the South, especially in London.

The map was produced for the Myth of the North exhibition at the Lowry arts complex in Manchester, and was mentioned recently in the Daily Mail . I’m afraid I don’t have an exact link to the article, but here is the page at the Lowry for the aforementioned exhibition.


74 Comments »

  1. The US’s North and South are quite clearly delineated, by the states’ affiliations during the Civil War (which in the east coincides with the Mason-Dixon line).

    Not exactly true–the Mason-Dixon Line is the northern border of Maryland and Delaware. Neither of those states joined the Confederacy, although both were slave states and there was a lot of pro-Confederate sentiment in Maryland. Washington, DC is also south of the line.

    Comment by rea — October 30, 2007 @ 8:51 pm

  2. Slip that line 10 miles south east and you have the Fosse Way

    Comment by lordhutton — October 30, 2007 @ 8:59 pm

  3. Actually, Mason-Dixon is the border between Maryland and Pennsylvania. The original Maryland charter granted it a boundary significantly north of its current location, a border which would have put Philadelphia (among other places) in Maryland territory. The line was a compromise. It was the defacto line between north and south for a long time, but not any more. Some traditionally southern areas (the Virginia suburbs of DC) are now firmly in the grasp of a homoginized “northern” culture (as are Maryland and Delaware.) Meanwhile, pro-union states like Kentucky and West Virginia now hold strong identities with the south, and substantial minorities with sympathy to the Confederacy in particular. Anyway, the border between Pennsylvania and Delaware is not part of Mason-Dixon, and at some point this site did a feature on its unique semi-circular appearance, though I can’t find it off the top of my head.

    Comment by kylemahaney — October 30, 2007 @ 9:21 pm

  4. The Midlands (around Birmingham-Nottingham-Leicester) is a kind of no-man’s-land that is disowned and mocked by north and south alike — the English equivalent of Missouri.

    Comment by mollymooly — October 30, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

  5. I’m struck by the similarity to the invisible border determining the difference in vowel sounds between northern and southern England (e.g. the way the “u” is pronounced in “butter”). This is generally considered to be a diagonal line running from the Severn to the Wash.

    Comment by Hg — October 30, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

  6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie

    Your origin of “Dixie”, while popular, is probably inaccurate.

    Good post, though :-)

    Comment by Rob Smith — October 30, 2007 @ 9:43 pm

  7. The Mason-Dixon line is the border between Pennsylvania and Maryland, plus the border between Delaware and Maryland; at the time that the line was surveyed, if I remember correctly, Delaware was part of Pennsylvania.

    Comment by Isabel — October 30, 2007 @ 10:15 pm

  8. I’d probably take issue with the bottom left end of that line. Herefordshire is without a doubt the ‘lost’ county of the west country – which also raises the question – should the west country be considered ’south’ – I’ll bet Cornwall’s demographics are distinctly northern. Anyway – accent-wise the north probably starts just north of mid-shropshire, putting Worcester in the south, where it really should be. I thought the original North / South divide was the Danelaw, meaning you could probably now take genetic samples from all over the country to see the blend of Saxon / Viking genes and make a new n/s line that way, adding the home counties etc.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/England-878ad.jpg

    Comment by rob — October 31, 2007 @ 12:31 am

  9. [...] probably best known in the USA now for the Arctic Monkeys connection. The image is my Picniking of StrangeMap 193. Posted by Andrew Filed in Fun Tags: england, [...]

    Pingback by I’m Just Looking at the Two Englands « Changing Way — October 31, 2007 @ 2:31 am

  10. IIRC, Dixie was coined from the currency in use in New Orleans. Banks issued notes called Dix, french for ten, and the NO area became known as Dixieland. That name eventually spread to the rest of the area.

    Comment by MattW — October 31, 2007 @ 5:49 am

  11. I’ve lived in Alabama my whole life and have never heard anyone call the South, Dixieland. Dixie yes. I believe Dixieland is only used now to refer to he jazz style.

    Comment by Abestar — October 31, 2007 @ 9:00 am

  12. “In Great Britain as in the US, two cultural sub-nations identify themselves (and the other) as North and South”. An understanable confusion but the North/South divide really only applies to England. Scotland is usually excluded as it has a different political geography.

    Comment by CliveOg — October 31, 2007 @ 9:25 am

  13. I think you’ll find that this map:
    http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7397/map03mp5.jpg has a much better grasp of the north/south divide in Britain. Unfortnately I don’t know the provenance of it, but was directed to it from an internet discussion board that I frequently frequent.

    Comment by boris — October 31, 2007 @ 11:37 am

  14. 1) Given the discussion, it would have been good if the map indicated where the Watford Gap *is*.

    2) While it is true that Maryland remained in the Union during the Civil War, its sentiments were strongly pro-slavery, and it probably would have seceded if the federal government hadn’t made it a priority to keep in in the Union camp, by force if necessary (because Washington, DC would otherwise have been isolated from the Union). So in a historical sense, Maryland could be counted Southern. OTOH, the current opinion seems to be that “the South” starts at the southern edge of the Virginia suburbs of DC.

    Comment by Dale — October 31, 2007 @ 2:50 pm

  15. I always thought the North/South divide in England (sic) was best defined by the number of antiques shops per head of population. Hence Lincoln in the South

    Comment by Jonny — October 31, 2007 @ 3:05 pm

  16. It never ceases to amaze me how many borders and dividing lines we have in the UK.

    Where else would you find a single country made up of four separate nations in the first place.

    I don’t pretend to know much about the makeup of Wales or Ireland. But during my time in England I found the north-south divide quite pronounced.

    But it can be broken down even further. The “north-east” is often referred to as a single, homogenous area. In fact Geordies and Makems (people frome Newcastle and Sunderland resepctively) have quite distinct tribal and geographical boundaries. And that’s before you even start to think about people from Northumberland, Durham, Darlington etc.
    Here in Scotland we have several distinct boundaries that don’t show up on any maps. The divide between East and West (Edinburgh and Glasgow) is pronounced.

    While the north-south divide – between the highly developed central belt) and the Highlands and other more northerly regions – is also pretty clear to those of us who live here.

    I canonly presume there are similar situation in most other Europan countries as well – the Basques, spring to mind. I know there is also a very strained north-south divide in Italy as well (the reverse of that in England, where the north is prosperous and urbane, while the south is seen as poorer and rougher round the edges.

    Cheers for the post.

    Comment by scottdouglas — October 31, 2007 @ 6:13 pm

  17. Nice map. What’s the line connecting Hull and Grimsby?

    The discussion would be better for me if I knew where all these English counties were. As an American, I’m ignorant.

    I’m not ignorant about the American Civil War, or “War Between the States” as it was known for about a century afterward. Eleven states seceded in all to form the Confederacy: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia. West Virginia actually “seceded” from Virginia and became a separate state because it didn’t want to join the Confederacy. Knetucky, Maryland, and Missouri all seriously debated joining the Confederacy, but opted against it. The only other state allowing slavery, Delaware, never considered secession, and the debate there (as in the North) was more about “should we let those stupid, backward plantation owners have their dumb country to themselves?” (OK, so I make the South seem bad in their eyes, but that was an accurate assessment of how the US felt circa 1860. And Southerners thought Northerners were bad too, or they wouldn’t have seceded in the first place.)

    Comment by Darrel Jones — October 31, 2007 @ 6:18 pm

  18. This is quite amusing for an Englishman, coming from the “Missouri-like” town of Derby, apparently mocked by North and South alike. The fact they both mock us is a sign that they are united by one factor; Idiocy!
    That aside, we did have a fairly nasty civil war when America was in diapers with a certain Oliver Cromwell resulting in the beheading of Charles 1st.
    If I can make an observation as an “on the fence” Midlander, the Southerners are generally full of self-importance and unfriendly, but move to the South West and you find a friendly sort. The Welsh hate the English, all of them. The Northerners are generally expansive and friendly, though parts of Yorkshire are inward looking and suspicious of strangers. Its true that The Makems and Geordies are almost tribal, and the Geordies in particular are great fun. Politically…mm…I lived in Yorkshire for many years, and its so entrenched in Labour doctrine, they’d vote for a mangy dog if it had a red rosette on it. Therefore, I became totally disillusioned with voting..it is simply pointless to cast your vote for another party other than Labour if you live in Yorkshire, so dont let anyone tell me its important to vote, Its not. Not until the votes are counted as a total in the country, and not by constituency. Still it could be worse, I could have lived in the U.S. where you had a “recount” so the other guy could win!

    Comment by kevmoore — October 31, 2007 @ 7:32 pm

  19. previously commented — “Slip that line 10 miles south east and you have the Fosse Way” Comment by lordhutton — October 30, 2007

    I agree — Glevum to Lindum !

    nice map, regards atrebatus

    Comment by atrebatus — October 31, 2007 @ 7:38 pm

  20. An interesting application of the North- South divide in England is the one informing the alternate reality of Sussanah Clarke’s “Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell” [which was my first contact with the notion]. In the novel’s timeline, set during the Napoleonic wars, there has been a civil war between the English government of London and the kingdom of the Raven King, which controls North England with a capital at Newcastle. The “division” is very similar and it’s interesting to see that this concept is not a simple invention of the writer but is based on a broad quasi-cultural divide.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Strange_&_Mr_Norrell

    Comment by GeorgeK — October 31, 2007 @ 8:05 pm

  21. I am sure Northumbria had wars with Mercia/Wessex back in the Anglo-Saxon times.:-)

    Comment by Leo Petr — October 31, 2007 @ 8:26 pm

  22. Ms. Clarkes novel sounds interesting, Im going to have to search that one out…

    Comment by kevmoore — October 31, 2007 @ 8:32 pm

  23. “The US’s North and South are quite clearly delineated…”

    Really? If we are looking at cultural divides, then southern New Jersey is probably more Southern than northern Virginia. In fact, I think that something to that effect has been featured before on this very website.

    Comment by Nyx — October 31, 2007 @ 9:23 pm

  24. Just take a look at Hastings. Its at the Southerly extreme of the North/South UK Divide, so it should be seriously prosperous, well educuated, right?
    Wrong.

    Comment by kevmoore — October 31, 2007 @ 9:38 pm

  25. This new ‘dividing line’ makes Scotland and England look a lot like the Korean Peninsula.

    Comment by Vic — November 1, 2007 @ 3:17 am

  26. Notice how there are no places below the line that have won the European cup?

    Guess there are no big clubs in the south

    Comment by RunRickyRun — November 1, 2007 @ 3:23 am

  27. @scottdouglas – in my experience, socio-geographic divisions are like fractals: they exist in pretty much the same proportions however much you zoom in or out. From my London perspective: the good and bad ends of my street; my borough and the one next to it; north and south of the river; and so on. It’s like when you were a kid and you gave your address as 21 The Street, The Town, The County, Scotland, the UK, Europe, the Earth, the Universe…

    @kevmoore – as a born & bred East Midlander who has lived dahn Sahth for twenty years, I feel qualified to point out the flaws in your neat & tidy generalisation on friendliness. The impression of greater friendliness in the north is superficial: Northerners will talk to random strangers more willingly, but that’s about it. The population is denser in the south and Southerners don’t feel the need to chat to every single person at the bus stop, but establish some common ground with them that singles you out from the crowd and they’ll be your friend for life.

    Comment by Hg — November 1, 2007 @ 8:02 am

  28. Abestar @11 — you’ve lived in Alabama your whole life and you’ve never heard a song that goes “look away! Dixieland!”? I find that hard to fathom.

    I thought the North-South divide was at Crewe, where the trains change. And for every grimy spot in the South, there’s a part of Chester in the North. The place with the highest per-capita consumption of Champagne is far north of your line there.

    Comment by Fnarf — November 1, 2007 @ 11:17 am

  29. @ Fnarf

    If your talking about the lyric in ‘Dixie’ then no I’ve never heard that version actually played. And you should know there are very many versions of Dixie. Some versions say Dixieland some say Dixie’s land and other just say Dixie.

    I wasn’t talking about a random song lyric anyway I was just saying people don’t call the South Dixieland at all.

    Comment by Abestar — November 1, 2007 @ 12:12 pm

  30. Fair point Hq, though I did moderate my observation by stating the insular nature of a lot of Yorkshire folk. Shall we agree to differ, quoting the line from the (not so) classic Ebony and Ivory by Stevie Wonder and McCartney – “There is good and bad in everyone” :-)

    Comment by kevmoore — November 1, 2007 @ 3:45 pm

  31. The new border looks an awful lot like the old border between the Danelaw and Alfred of Wessex’ territories (except for Lincolnshire which I believe was in the Danelaw, at least for a while).

    Comment by Annalucia — November 1, 2007 @ 7:30 pm

  32. Here is link to more detailed version of map, with more links to the actual study, etc.
    http://www.sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/nsdivide/ns_line_detail.html

    According to the detailed map, Watford Gap is a ten miles or thereabouts southeast of the “Real” Dividing Line.

    Comment by Sea Shanty Irish — November 1, 2007 @ 7:51 pm

  33. Interesting that Stratford-upon-Avon, Shakespeare’s home, is on the “Real” Dividing Line’s southern border…

    Comment by Darrel Jones — November 1, 2007 @ 8:47 pm

  34. Indeed Darrel – but Tolkien was brought up on the “Real” Dividing Line’s northern border. So it doesn’t prove anything except that the Midlands produced the world’s greatest poet and the world’s greatest storyteller

    Comment by RunRickyRun — November 1, 2007 @ 9:51 pm

  35. I’d love to see a map like this for Canada.

    Comment by rek — November 3, 2007 @ 4:12 pm

  36. I live in the Midlands so does everyone from Nottingham, Gloucester, Worcester, Coventry, Warwick, Leicester and Birmingham. The North starts in Sheffield and the South starts below Oxfordshire.

    The North/South divide is a media/political term used by people to what talk about differences. It’s primarily used by people in the North with huge chips on their shoulders to compare where they live with the “South” or London. You’ll notice that in your map the city of Manchester looks to be the second or third biggest city in the country. It isn’t, it’s only the 9th biggest by population but it is the 2nd biggest in terms of its self importance, self styled Capital of the North. Just tell don’t anyone from Liverpool, Leeds or Newcastle as they don’t tend to agree, odd that. Finally the North/South divide is rarely mentioned in the Midlands or its media.

    There is another cultural divide that runs through England called the Irony Curtain. It starts north of Birmingham and gets stronger through Derby, Leicester and Nottingham until it hits Yorkshire where it is at full strength. People above this line stereotypically are plain speaking and expect a straight answer to a straight question. This is summed up in the phrase “I say what I like and I like what I say”. Those south of the line tend to moderate their speech in terms of politeness and a desire not to offend. The extreme end of this spectrum is people like Hugh Grant. Unfortunately I cannot find any online maps to illustrate this.

    Comment by Chris — November 3, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

  37. Annalucia @ 11

    The boundary of the Danelaw lay perpendicular to the north-south divide. The Danelaw frontier ran from the Mersey to the Thames. The north-south divide runs from the Severn to either the Wash or the Trent.

    Comment by Brett Dunbar — November 3, 2007 @ 10:47 pm

  38. One of the indicators of “north” versus “south” in beer is whether the beer should be served through a thingie called a sparkler which changes the character of the head (north, especially Yorkshire beers -> sparkler, south -> not). I’m tempted to do a county-by-county breakdown and see how well it fits this line, especially as Bristol and Cardiff-area breweries have been notably ambiguous on the question.

    Comment by Edmund Schluessel — November 4, 2007 @ 5:42 pm

  39. I went and did that map. http://st-lemur.livejournal.com/392563.html#cutid1

    Comment by Edmund Schluessel — November 5, 2007 @ 12:14 pm

  40. I find it facinating how we all try define someone and link them to other by geographic description rather than looking an an areas commenality with other areas based on income levels, education levels of the citizenry, voting patterns etc….

    Comment by don — November 7, 2007 @ 7:03 pm

  41. As a southerner married to a northerner, who has lived in many parts of the UK (and abroad) let me give you my take.

    When I lived in parts of London, there were complaints about how intelligencia ignored the rest. When I lived in the Home counties (ie the commuter belt adjacent to London) they complained about London and how it dominated (ironic because many like me were London overspill). When I lived in Yorkshire they mainly complained about soft Southerners but retained a smidgeon of contempt for Lancastrians. When I lived in Manchester they mainly complained about soft Southerners but retained a smidgeon of contempt for mean Yorkshire. When I lived in Scotland they complained about the English.

    My conclusion: it’s all about proximity to central London. This is the locus, not only of government, but also of media, banking and company HQs. Newspapers don’t report something unless it’s happening in London. When they report about the regions it frequently has a London edge such as Leeds now has a Harvey Nichols. That makes it share a shop with London. Whatever profession you work in, you can always go that bit further in London. Editor of the Yorkshire Post is a career failure compared to Editor of the Independent, although the former sells more (I understand). One of the reasons the Beatles were rejected by Decca in favour of the Tremeloes is that being a London company, they felt it better to work with the locally based Brian Poole and co. Occasionally there are reactions against this like Merseybeat or Madchester and so on but they are inevitably ephemeral and the locus switches back.

    Comment by TDK — November 10, 2007 @ 2:28 pm

  42. Thanks a lot Lorelle – it was a fun, and funny day
    Hope to see you soon…

    Comment by Alex — November 10, 2007 @ 5:15 pm

  43. I always considered the north to be anywhere in England, north of the river Trent. I think this map fails to recognize the midlands as a distinct area. Are the researchers attempting to secure more territory for the North?

    Comment by John Cass — November 14, 2007 @ 3:42 pm

  44. @chris

    Manchester city itself is smaller than many other cities in the UK, about 500,000 people I believe. Except the greater Manchester conurbation does have about 2.5 million people. Liverpool has 900,000.

    I live in Boston, MA and the city only has 500,000 people, yet the greater Boston area probably has about 2.5 million. Most people here know they live in separate towns; I live in Arlington with 40,000. But if asked by anyone out of the area I’d tell him or her I live in Boston.

    I don’t know how Manchester compares to other Northern cities in cultural attractions, but I believe Mancunian’s ego on this point comes from the size of the population, historical perspective (the industrial revolution), and cultural attractions. I think what makes the UK interesting is the strength of its provincial cities. The US’s state system fosters diversity and economic diffusion.

    Having said this, I don’t think Manchester is the capital of the North, mainly because probably only other Mancunian’s believe that. I’ve heard similar statements from other northern cities that also don’t ring true to me; perhaps we’d all be better off spending our time on promoting the whole region rather than just one particular city. The north went through a major economic downturn in the 70’s and 80’s but has managed to revive itself through the vitality of its people in the 90’s. That growth is something to celebrate whether its in Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds or Sheffield.

    Few American’s probably realize this but the North was very sparsely populated up until 200-300 years ago. While the UK seems like an old country, in many ways, parts of the country were very much shaped by the industrial revolution. Lancashire for instance was the least populated part of the country before the revolution, and one of the most populated after the growth of its manufacturing towns. I used to hear from American’s that the US was very new, 400 years or more usually around since 1776, nothing appeared to happen in North America before then for some people, (I lived in California at the time) but from my perspective the north is economically and culturally a similarly dated concept to the US going only back to the mid-eighteenth century.

    @Chris, next time you hear an egotistically orientated Mancunican going on about Manchester being the capital of the North, remind them that many cities in the north are economically and culturally linked in ways that only foster growth for all northern cities growing together. What would Manchester be without the port of Liverpool, and what would Liverpool be without the markets of Manchester.

    Comment by John Cass — November 14, 2007 @ 4:12 pm

  45. Bloody hell. The divide touches the end of my road just 100 yards away. I guess that explains my wobbly accent.

    Comment by Tony — November 19, 2007 @ 12:19 am

  46. There should be a split line from Gloucester down to Southampton!
    the South West of England should be another faction!

    Comment by James Hemmings — November 27, 2007 @ 8:20 pm

  47. I always thought the English North-South Divide was defined by whether “buck” rhymes with “book” (the North) or not (the South).

    Comment by tym — December 5, 2007 @ 9:37 am

  48. @strangemaps – the village is called Watford, not Watford Gap, and the gap is named after it. Incidentally, somewhere south of the nearby town on Northampton is about where on the M1 the Midlands begins, not ending until a couple of hours later when one reaches somewhere between Chesterfield and Sheffield.

    @post 17 – that’s the sea!

    @post 36 – quite! :-)

    Comment by Matthew — December 5, 2007 @ 1:27 pm

  49. I have lived in Minnesota since 1971 but was born in Leicester in 1942, leaving at age 18. I think of Minnesota as the Leicester of the USA – both being in the middle, having little heavy industry, having a somewhat varied economy, and as avoiding the two extremes of grating rudeness and overly refined manners. The letter U as in butter was pronounced Germanically by all working class people the same way it was in the North. In the North and the Midlands, book was pronounced as it is spelt: boook. Although Leciester, has been included in the Midlands, it sympathies have tended to lean towards the North, having in common a distrust of Londoners, though I myself have been married to one for 38 years. The people of Leicestershire, at least those in the northern part, feel some kinship with the people of Nottingham and Derby. Thus, I experience some sadness in seeing Leicester separated from those two neighbors by a line on a map. Growing up in the Midlands, I realized that the The North and the South had distinctly different identities. There is no Midland identity.

    It is worth pointing out that the late Victorian poet, Hilaire Belloc, begins his poem “The South Country” with the lines

    “When I am living in the Midlands That are sodden and unkind,
    I light my lamp in the evening:
    My work is left behind;
    And the great hills of the South Country
    Come back into my mind.”

    Perhaps this is part of being mocked by the South.

    With regard to the North, it ends at the northern borders of Lancashire and Yorkshire. Of course Scotland lies quite some distance beyond. The area between the North and Scotland, it is said, was laid waste by William the Conqueror in the 11th century and accounts for the rest of us not understanding a word they say.

    Comment by Mike Thompson — December 9, 2007 @ 5:50 am

  50. The north will rise again

    Comment by LuDux — December 9, 2007 @ 7:36 pm

  51. [...] Distance (yTube-2min)Halloween sound-effect samples (2mp3s-30min)England’s Mason-Dixon line (sMaps)Young Kate Bush (many mp3s)(34)YoungKateBush-alike Oonagh Ryder (mp3, pic)Details on single-nanotube [...]

    Pingback by Backup Site Blog » October 2007 links — December 10, 2007 @ 5:43 am

  52. [...] 1990 Leyland DAF Final highlights…and more old football matches. North and South Map of the UK North/South divide. iheartphotograph Experimental work from emerging and unknown photographers – blog. [...]

    Pingback by October — December 29, 2007 @ 9:45 pm

  53. I live in Lincoln and refuse to referred to as a Southerner. For one thing I don’t pronounce words such as grass “grarse”. I live with a bunch of Southerners from Essex and London now and we’re nothing alike. Also, to the guy asking what the line connecting Hull and Grimsby is, that’s the River Humber. You just can’t see the end of it because the Grimsby dot is so big.

    Comment by John — February 6, 2008 @ 3:39 pm

  54. Actually, the two sides did fight a civil war against each other, in a way. During the English Civil War, the South mostly sided with Parliament while the North mostly sided with King Charles.

    Comment by Matthew — March 26, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  55. I find it interesting that Sheffield University decided to study this.

    Sheffield is my home town. When I went to university – in the south I was appalled to find that certain southerners thought that Sheffield was in the Midlands – it’s the North, obviously.

    On the other hand I wouldn’t have the slightest hesitation in saying that Birmingham, Coventry, Nottingham very definitely are in the Midlands.

    I’m not sure why this ever mattered to me, but at the time it seemed very important indeed. Maybe the Midlands is simply a place that we like to think urselves superior to.

    Comment by Geoff — October 7, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  56. thanks

    Comment by hero — October 15, 2008 @ 4:55 pm

  57. lek @ 35

    You can try deciphering one out of this: http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/QOL/ove_qol_uc? or some of the other maps available from the site.

    Comment by DetailBear — November 9, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

  58. Good post. Thanks

    Comment by Canli Tv izle — November 22, 2008 @ 4:38 pm

  59. I thought the line looked familiar so I dug up Hoskins’ The Making of the English Landscape and discovered that it is the path of the old Jurassic Way, the geological junction of the upper Lias and the lower Oolite. You can see this on a map of English geological structure:

    http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/jpg-Geological-Maps/8GB-Old-Map-British-Isles.jpg

    There is an old pathway running along the route which is associated with Iron Age hill forts, but as a division of England, it may actually date from the Bronze Age.

    Comment by Kaleberg — December 15, 2008 @ 2:37 am

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    eğlence ve bilgi platformu

    Comment by Maxi-Cafe — May 8, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

  65. thanks for this map..
    good 
    luck

    Comment by Solomon — May 11, 2009 @ 8:37 am

  66. Thank You

    Comment by Kral — May 12, 2009 @ 8:41 pm

  67. merci

    Comment by aspicco . — May 17, 2009 @ 6:22 am

  68. oyun

    Comment by http://www.oyunsel.com — May 30, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

  69. Vielen Dank

    Comment by moon — July 3, 2009 @ 4:47 am

  70. Muchas gracias

    Comment by sun — July 4, 2009 @ 7:16 am

  71. You should take a look at the proposed “Tripartite Indenture” which could of happened between Henry Percy, Owain Glyndŵr and Mortimer circa 1400.

    See http://history.powys.org.uk/history/images3/tripart.gif

    Comment by Huw Waters — July 7, 2009 @ 10:54 pm

  72. Fenerbahce Taraftar Site

    Comment by TrakyaFB — August 21, 2009 @ 2:44 pm

  73. “maybe because the ‘Two Englands’ never fought a civil war against each other” excuse me, england did fight a civil war in 1641-1660 and actually the line corisponds to the side that supported the King(north) and the side that side that supported cromweell(south)

    Comment by levi — December 14, 2009 @ 3:02 am

  74. thank you for map

    Comment by dinisohbet — December 14, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

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