Strange Maps

December 11, 2008

341 – Hungariform Crossword For Magyarophone Cartophiles

Filed under: Uncategorized — strangemaps @ 2:46 am

 magyarorszag-rejtveny

Here’s a treat for all you cruciverbally obsessed Hungarian cartophiles out there: a Magyarophone crossword in the shape of Old Hungary, i.e. the other half of the Austrian-led Double Monarchy that ruled much of Central Europe until its defeat in World War I.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved after the war, and Hungary descended into chaos. At the Treaty of Trianon (1920), Hungary lost an astonishing 72% of its territory – including its access to the sea – to literally all of its neighbours: the newly formed states of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria itself and even bits to Poland. Most of these lands were majoritarily non-Hungarian, but the loss was (and to some extent still is) experienced as an unfair humiliation.

So ‘Old Hungary’ lives on, albeit here in the form of an irredentism-flavoured crossword puzzle. It’s hard to tell whether the nostalgic theme extends to the content of the puzzle. Hungarian is a non-Indo-European language, rendering it virtually unintelligible to most other Europeans. The only words I recognise are ‘Mahatma Ghandi’ and (I think) ‘gratulátunk!’

So gratulátunk (I hope) to Pál Szabó for sending in this map.

47 Comments »

  1. Just FYI, you are close:

    (present tense)

    gratulálunk = we congratulate
    gratulálok/gratulálom = I congratulate

    (past tense)
    gratuláltunk = we congratulated
    gratuláltam = I congratulated

    Comment by Ben — December 11, 2008 @ 4:41 am

  2. Interesting juxtaposition of the “Big Hungary” map (which, as you can imagine, is very much a symbol of extreme-right nationalists) with the solution for the puzzle, which is supposed to be a piece of Mahatma Ghandi advice. I wonder which? Maybe I should give it a shot, my Hungarian is so-so.

    Comment by Birdseed — December 11, 2008 @ 10:28 am

  3. It’s a pretty simple crossword. The solution says “Légy az a változás amit a világban is látni akarsz”, that is “Be the change that you want to see in the world” (my translation). Did Gandhi say something along those lines? Feel free to speculate how that goes with the map.

    Comment by Aniko — December 11, 2008 @ 2:03 pm

  4. They never quit. Whenever I am in Budapest and mention that I am going to/coming from Oradea, they always hasten to mention that they used to own it, and usually add that it’s Nagyvarad. Whatever was the maximum extent of any European country’s boundaries in the last thousand years they think of as the real boundaries, and deeply resent not having it anymore.

    Sigh. Well, perhaps we’d do the same in their shoes.

    Comment by Assistant Village Idiot — December 12, 2008 @ 2:34 am

  5. Where can I buy a big partizan?

    Comment by cosmic cup — December 12, 2008 @ 6:32 am

  6. gratulálom???

    this form does not exist

    Just FYI! :)

    And for the background: it is a pain for every Hungarians that we lost a lot of area, it is very painful if you travel to Transsylvania and you see people speaking your language and claiming themselves Hungarian

    but they are the stupid people (and there are a lot) who cannot understand that is is done and history cannot be changed.

    Comment by Bela — December 12, 2008 @ 6:53 am

  7. “Most of these lands were majoritarily non-Hungarian”. That’s a wrong aspect. Example: After Trianon the number of hungarians in Slovakia: 1 milion Transylvania: 2 milion Yugoslavia: 800.000 Ukraine: 300.000. With a so numerous minority the formed states can’t live. That’s the head of the problems. And an image how good these states satisfies the minority rights: the number of Hungarians today is more under the number in 1920. The nationalism is not publishing such a crossword. The nationalism is what Slota is doing in Slovakia and Europe assists to it. Better publish those manifestations against Hungarian minority than such crosswords that can’t change anithing, don’t produces wars. In contrast Slota wants to go to Budapest by tank. That’s nationalism not a corssword. And yes, for the Hungarians Oradea remains Nagyvárad because the hundred years old name of a city can’t be forgotten in 90 years. The Turkish Empire ocuppied half-Hungary for 150 years but Hungarians don’t speek Turkish, the Hungarian cities don’t have Turkish names.

    Comment by Zozo — December 12, 2008 @ 7:02 am

  8. ” it is a pain for every Hungarians ”

    …not for every, for example i don’t give a shit about it…

    Comment by Brrr — December 12, 2008 @ 7:04 am

  9. More about: http://jobbik.com

    Comment by Hapci — December 12, 2008 @ 7:50 am

  10. I guess you should not allow the comments. Your side is online on the biggest Hungarian pages…

    It will be too hot soon…

    bocs fiúk, de erre megint semmi szükség.

    Comment by torky — December 12, 2008 @ 8:00 am

  11. I agree, you should close down the comments.

    Srácok, ha nemzetközi botrányt akartok kelteni, ne itt, és ne most tegyétek!

    Comment by Julien — December 12, 2008 @ 8:45 am

  12. mit akartok már alig vannak határok.. mingyár ukrajnát is idecsapják meg a horvátokat;)

    Comment by Dani — December 12, 2008 @ 8:53 am

  13. Bela:

    “gratulálom” does exist:
    It is the accusative form with the compulsory MEG prefix..

    e.g. “Meggratulálom a nagymamát születésnapja alkalmából”

    It sounds stupid, but exists..

    Comment by vampierre — December 12, 2008 @ 9:18 am

  14. It’s strange, what here in our lovely country goes on…

    Besides these ridiculous negligible monkey movements it’s a country of fun and fantastic looking girls, come check it:))

    Comment by Facsipesz — December 12, 2008 @ 9:41 am

  15. To tell the truth – although considering myself a right wing guy – I assume that giving areas from the great Hungary to their present owners was fair. In fact, I’m glad to see that slovaks can have now the beautyful High Tatras, for example. Anyway, I don’t hate slovaks, but I’m glad that they can have their own, independent country.

    There is only one thing which makes me grievous: The areas taken from old Hungary are too big. It’s a punishment (based on some speculation) instead of fair judge, what our neighbours and the great powers had done to us. I don’t want back all the areas, only the areas inhabited by our hungarian brothers.

    And, because, after some ethicity bsed persecuiton, still there are “too many” hungarians in the neighbouring countries, which makes the fear of our brothers and, hate them, and suppress them.

    Which nation could just forgive in this situation?

    VAZE!

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 12, 2008 @ 10:01 am

  16. I agree with Brrr… What do you think? Who the fuck it even cares outside of Hungary? What is Budapest for a non-Hungarian? God’s asshole I assume. Don’t try to explain the troubled history of Hungary for a foreigner and wake up! Step over and start to live!

    Comment by Zavaros — December 12, 2008 @ 10:43 am

  17. You might get me wrong. I don’t consider Hungary’s history that troubled.

    Beside this, what do you think, how did the neighbouring nations manage to tear away so enormous areas containing great regions with clear hungarian majority? I assume, the first step towards this achievement was to explain their troubled history to the grat powers :)

    But don’t get me wrong, despite thinking this, I’m TOTALLY againt ANY KIND of violence.

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 12, 2008 @ 11:10 am

  18. Hi Assistant Village Idiot,

    The fact is that we call “Bucureşti” as “Bukarest” in Hungarian. What do you think?

    Comment by mindegy — December 12, 2008 @ 11:10 am

  19. Although I definitely do not want to resurrect the old Hungary, it’s a little bit derogatory to call it simply the maximum extent of Hungay. That wasn’t just a temporarily reached maximum extend, but the normal extent for more than one thousand years only with minor changes (not considering the 150 years long partial Turkish occupation), while the new borders are only 90 years old.

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 12, 2008 @ 11:46 am

  20. The map was also published in a joint MIEP and Jobbik (two small extreme right parties) in their 7th district free newspaper entitled “A hetedik. Erzsébetváros nemzeti kiadványa”. I mentioned it on my blog http://jezwegierski.blox.pl/2008/11/Global-Voices-po-polsku.html

    By the way, I think that information that Hungary lost territories to Poland thanks to the Trianon treaty seems to be incorrect. I have not been able to confirm it anywhere.

    Comment by jez wegierski — December 12, 2008 @ 11:53 am

  21. Solution of the crossword: (Gandhi) Be the the change, which you want to see in the world.
    (Légy az a változás a világban, amit látni akarsz)

    Comment by Lefty — December 12, 2008 @ 12:03 pm

  22. Judging it from the positive side!
    Hungary is the only country wich is surounded by itself!

    Comment by _rp_ — December 12, 2008 @ 12:22 pm

  23. One of my favorite postcards of all time was one that was a map of Nagy Magyarorszag. If you pulled on a tab the areas of Transylvania, (Erdely), Norther Serbia (Banat) and other areas pulled away, leaving on the borders of today. I had no change at the time so I couldn’t buy it.

    The power of maps as part of nationalist discourse remains unparalleled, no nation on this planet is without some dreamed of homeland that can be transformed into a nation-state that is congruent with the location of everything who is a member of the nation.

    Comment by Darren Purcell — December 12, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  24. I think, we, hungarians only have the problem, that when chopping the old Hungary, all the neighbouring nations ended with countries larger than the area inhabited by them, but hungarians got considerably smaller. Millons (and literally millions, compare it to the mere 10 million inhabitants of resent day Hungary!!) of us were forced to live in the surrounding foreign countries. Do you understand it now?!

    And I think we could perhaps accept this situation, but right because of the large number of hungarians in the neigbouring countries makes those nations to fear of us, and persecute us.

    The are tendencies of suppressing the hungarian language education of children, bullying (mainly in serbia), and even some politicians dare to say that those hungarians are not even hungarians, but hungarian speaking slovaks for example. Which nation could just accept this treatment?

    I know that we, hungarians aren’t innocent in the centuries old conflicts, and so are our politicians. One of our leading politicians offered for his slovakian colleagues to apoligize to each other, but they refused, saying that they don’t have any reason to apologize (opposed to the hungarians, of course!)

    How the f**k is this possible in Europe anyway?

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 12, 2008 @ 9:17 pm

  25. You know something?

    You, western guys are protesting with phrases like “Free Tibet”, but you seem to forget about the somewhat similar (and sometimes threatening) cases in Europe.

    What about the basque? And austrians in Südtirol? Serbians in Kosovo, Bosnia and probably even in Croatia? And there are even more. Finnish people in russia? And so on.

    In the communist era it was forbidden to speak about the treaty of Trianon and hungarians in the neigbouring countries. (This may be the case the we call those hungarians “them” instead of “us”). Now the “politically correct” language prevents us to speak about things like this.

    But I say, we should speak. But we should discuss it instead of debating. Eastern-central Europe isn’t strong enough to afford these nations to be enemies instead of allies.

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 12, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

  26. What’s up with the Basques?

    Comment by jjmerelo — December 13, 2008 @ 9:56 am

  27. As a french irredentist and imperialist, I want the immediate annexion of southern Belgium including Brussels, Luxemburg, western Switzerland, The alpine valleys of western Italia, southern Saarland in Germany and the whole spanish Catalunya…Just kidding, but sometimes I wonder why some so bitterly nationalists eastern Europeans wanted so much to integrate the transnational-upon-the-borders European Union…Just to get the money from the wealthy westerner neighboors ?

    Comment by lp — December 13, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  28. Are the french speaking citizens of southern Belgium, Luxemburg and western Switzerland suppressed beacause of their french origins? Hungarians in the neighbouring states are.

    Were those frechs speaking people in the mentioned countries torn away by force? Because these hungarians (one third of the hungarian nation in 1920!) were.

    Do they want to disintegrate from their present countries and “reunite” with France? I don’t think so.

    You are speaking about a totally different situation.

    And, by the way, how did you come to the conclusion that you have to insult eastern (in fact Central, eastern Europe is mostly Russia) europeans now?

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 14, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

  29. Jez Wegierski, with all respect – it’s never too late to learn.

    Actually Poland belongs to the club – she carved two small chunks of Greater Hungary (Orawa-Hungarian Arvo and Spisz- Hungarian Szepesseg)in 1920:

    http://www.polishroots.org/genpoland/so.htm

    Best regards…

    Comment by vendaval — December 15, 2008 @ 4:35 am

  30. You can find really correct informations on several languages about Trianon case here: http://www.trianon.norma.hu/

    Comment by Atilla the Hun — December 15, 2008 @ 8:27 am

  31. To the Indignate Hungarian:
    -declare war to the rogue state of Serbia and annex the magyar-speaking cantons of northern Vojvodine ( Batchka-Banat if you prefer );
    - Plot with Russia for the dismantling of Ukraine and get back southern carpathian Ruthenia;
    - Get out of the EU, because they have admitted inside two fascist states, Slovakia and Rumania, which persecute their minorities, and let them do so with no regard for Hungary; declare war to them, and get back The Southern Tatras and Transylvania ( or Erdely if you prefer );
    - Oppose by the arms to the admission of Croatia in 2011 in the EU, it’s not a country, just a former hungarian province.

    No more mourning, just acts !

    Comment by lp — December 17, 2008 @ 5:35 pm

  32. “Most of these lands were majoritarily non-Hungarian”

    Here is the so-called Red Map made by Pal Teleki in 1920:
    http://www.nemzetismeret.hu/image.php?id=404ab

    The red colour marks the territories with Hungarian majority. As you can see, the new state borders do not suite the ethnic borders, leaving millions of Hungarians in the neighbouring countries.

    Comment by TuRuL_2k2 — December 18, 2008 @ 8:40 am

  33. That was:
    http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A1jl:Austria_hungary_1911.jpg
    and that is:
    http://sebok1.adatbank.transindex.ro/legbelso.php3?nev=KozEu
    I think now is more important. The changes of the map is interesting and sad if you are hungarian.

    Comment by ryan — December 18, 2008 @ 9:36 am

  34. Maybe the Hungarians shouldn’t have thrown in their lot with the Austrians to create an empire? This is what happens when your empire collapses. You lose some territory. It’s too bad, but it happens to every former empire. Should Italy be larger than it is as some subset of the Roman empire? Turkey? France? Britain? Germany? There is no way to please every ethnicity or tribe, especially in a place as convoluted historically and geographically as Europe.

    Comment by Robert Capa — December 18, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

  35. Robert – The Hungarians didn’t “throw in their lot with the Austrians to create an empire” as you imply. The Hapsburg dynasty assimilated the Hungarian crown into *their* growing empire during the Turkish occupation; after the Hungarian revolution and war for independence in 1848-9 was crushed with the Russians’ help, the Compromise of 1867 which established the Dual Monarchy was the only peacable recourse the Hungarians had to achieve anything resembling independence, and full internal autonomy was a pretty good deal for them. Should they have challenged Vienna for a full split? If they’d had a chance to accomplish it, then I think so, but I have my doubts.

    You’re right that there’s no way to please everyone, but certainly the borders drawn by Trianon could have been closer to Wilsonian standards.

    Comment by pannonius — December 18, 2008 @ 7:16 pm

  36. For lp:

    Is it a joke?

    In fact once in during the WWII Hungary managed to get back (with the help of Germany) the territories with hungarian majority, but on the end of the war the great powers reverted this achievment.

    Anyway, treaty of Trianon was clearly unfair to us, and Europe doesn’t seem to support us. What the f**k can we do in this situation?

    To tell the truth, the support of irredentism is pretty weak amongst hungarians, too, many of us doesn’t even care about this.

    I think these conflicts cannot be solved in a few years. And to be honest, not only hungarians were suppressed in the neighbouring countries, but those nations also suffered suppression from us, when they belonged to the greater Hungary. In addition to mutual suppression, there is no consensus about our history, and, because of this, hungarians and the neighbours accuse each other with lie.

    I think instead of accusing each other, we should work out this conflict together with the neighbours. Which also seems to be impossible, because they don’t want to hear about it. Why would they?

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 18, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

  37. To Tamas Nemeth:

    as long as Milosevic is not reincarnated in Hungary, it’s a joke…
    But considering there are almost no more Poles in Vilnius, Grodno and Lviv, almost no more Germans in eastern Pomerania, Silesia and Mazovia, almost no more Jews between Berlin and Moscow, almost no more Armenians in Turkey, etc…it’s some kind of a chance there is a still significant number of Magyars around Hungary…
    And of course they deserve the right to preserve their language and culture, and Hungary can help them for sure, but why with “the so unfair Trianon” in mind ? ( The German leaders of the 1930’s always had in mind ” the so unfair Versailles” and we know how they managed it…).
    Fight for the rights of Magyarophones rather than for Magna Hungaria.

    By the way: Germany Nemetorszag ; Tamas Nemeth Tamas has a ancient german family background ?

    Comment by lp — December 19, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

  38. To lp:

    Thanks for not insulting us, because of these complains. To tell the truth, I’m not and irredentist, I only explained our point of view. However, I also encouarage the neghbouring nations, to do so.

    I coulds say many many things (for example about the patchy ethnic map of Central Europe which makes it difficult to draw fair borders), but one might be enough instead of those: “Put your sword back in its place! Everyone who uses a sword will be killed by a sword.” Germans wanted to solve their problems by sword, and in the end the great powers pushed Poland into Germany. Serbia wanted to build some great Serbia, and now they lost extensive territories (partly seemingly unfairly).
    Jews and Armenians exterminated, shame and tragedy.

    BTW, the slovakian president today refused to sign a law, which would let hungarian children in Slovakia to learn the names of settlements in the present day Slovakia in hungarian. Hungarian children seem to have to learn from books only containing the slovakian names of the settlements. Thanks guys :-(

    In spite of this, I don’t have hostile feelings towards slovakian people, and as for or relations in the more distant future, I’m optimistic.

    Yes, as far as i know, my ancestors are more than 50% german, but interestingly, I consider myself hungarian.

    You seem to know much about Central Europe, even about Hungary. You must be from Central Europe, aren’t you?

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 19, 2008 @ 11:47 pm

  39. And just an additional info: Magna Hungaria is not the mentioned great Hungary (which was on several occasions even larger, this crossword map only shows the “standard” size), but the area somewhere near to the Ural mountains, where the hungarian ethnic group was formed approximately 3000 years ago.

    And to please the croatians: Croatia was not a part of Hungary. As far as I know, it was considered somewhat independent, only under common government (but ruled by the king of Hungary) with us.

    But, as for Slovakia, it’s entirely constructed of areas of the former, “great” Hungary, although Romaina got an even larger area from us.

    Comment by Tamás Németh — December 20, 2008 @ 12:53 am

  40. To Tamas Nemeth:

    I’m born and raised in France, my parents, grand-parents, great-grand parents were so, and the roots are in rural families of Normandy, Burgundy, Périgord, Aunis and Saintonges, Maine…so, if I have a Central European ancestor, it’s far away in my genealogy ( but who knows ?)…

    But like the French territory, Hungary has an ancient Celtic background, so genetically we surely are ( not so distants )cousins ;-)

    I’ve discovered Central-Eastern-Balkanic Europe in the books, since 1989: I love History, and wanted to know more about ” the new old world” behind the fallen Berlin wall…and to have a little more culture on this than the french jounalists of that time who barely made no difference between a Lithuanian and a Slovenian…

    By the way, I just remember that Arpad and his buddies did plunder Burgundy ( among others ) in the tenth century, so my finno-ougric ancestor could be there ;-)

    Comment by lp — December 20, 2008 @ 1:45 pm

  41. @ lp (post #37)

    What crimes did the citizens of Austria-Hungary commit that they deserved to have their country broken into several smaller countries after WWI? Why did the allied powers deem this necessary.

    These events happened before the nazis existed and have nothing to do with Germany or German postwar reparations.

    When will the Hungarians make Otto their king. I understand Otto is very popular in Hungary:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg

    Do the Austrians and Hungarians wish to rebuild the old empire? Could they get Russia to support it in exchange for leaving the European Union and NATO?

    Comment by Bourgeoises Pig — January 1, 2009 @ 3:50 am

  42. Whoops, since Karl is too old and has made his son Karl head of the family. The crown would have to go to Otto’s son, Karl:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Habsburg-Lothringen

    Thanks for the jobbik.com link. Now I know what the Hungarian people think about the people of neighboring countries.

    Do corresponding websites exist for other countries that once comprised the Austro-Hungarian empire? If so, what are they?

    Intriguing!!!

    Comment by Bourgeoises Pig — January 1, 2009 @ 4:02 am

  43. ” The Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved after the war, and Hungary descended into chaos. At the Treaty of Trianon (1920), Hungary lost an astonishing 72% of its territory – including its access to the sea – to literally all of its neighbours: the newly formed states of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, Romania, Austria itself and even bits to Poland. Most of these lands were majoritarily non-Hungarian, but the loss was (and to some extent still is) experienced as an unfair humiliation. ”

    thanks

    goood

    Comment by top — January 23, 2009 @ 8:53 pm

  44. And isn’t it about time Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia was returned to Slovakia?

    Comment by Shadow — February 6, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

  45. Back to the last part of the original thread:
    there are actually several words in English of Hungarian origin: “paprika” (self explenatorry);
    “coach”:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kocs
    and one of the most used word in the English language: “halo” that originates form the Hungarian: hallod/hallom (can you hear?/I can her) as Tivadar Puskás’s
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivadar_Pusk%C3%A1s
    telephone switch boards where installed by the Hungarian personal all over the world.

    Comment by dorogzultan — March 18, 2009 @ 7:57 pm

  46. Vielen Dank

    Comment by moon — July 3, 2009 @ 5:31 am

  47. Muchas gracias

    Comment by sun — July 4, 2009 @ 7:59 am

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment

Blog at WordPress.com.