“When an English speaker doesn’t understand a word of what someone says, he or she states that it’s ‘Greek to me’. When a Hebrew speaker encounters this difficulty, it ’sounds like Chinese’. I’ve been told the Korean equivalent is ’sounds like Hebrew’,” says Yuval Pinter (here on the excellent Languagelog).
Which begs the question: “Has there been a study of this phrase phenomenon, relating different languages on some kind of Directed Graph?” Well apparently there has, even if only perfunctorily, and the result is this cartogram.
When a Hellenophone has trouble understanding something, his or her preferred languages of reference, as far as incomprehension is concerned, are Arabic and Chinese. And while for Arabs the proverbial unintelligible language is Hindi, for Chinese it’s… the language of Heaven.
For Romanians, the ultimate in incomprehensibility is Turkish, for the Turks its French and the French consider Javanese the acme in huh?
But it is Chinese that, according to this cartogram, is the incomprehensible lingo of (p)reference for almost a dozen other languages, from Greek and Polish to Dutch and Lithuanian. Spanish, Hebrew and Greek are also quite popular, understandably so in the case of the latter two languages (isolate, relatively small languages) but more inexplicably so in the case of Spanish – a world language in its own right.
Which begs the fundamental question: why is language X considered the summit of incomprehension by language Y? Doesn’t that at least require some passing knowledge (or to be more precise, an awareness of the existence) by Y of X?
Mutual incomprehension results from the right mixture of inter-lingual proximity and unintelligibility. In the Middle Ages, for example, when the monks’ knowledge of Greek was waning, they would write in the margin of texts they could not translate, in Latin: “Graecum est, non legitur” (“This is Greek to me, I can’t read it”).
Greek, an elite language even in Roman times(1), has remained the West’s most popular shorthand for gobbledygook throughout the time of Shakespeare, who coined the original expression “it was Greek to me” (in Julius Caesar, Act I, Scene II).
In the comments section of Languagelog are listed a few examples of such close/distant language incomprehension pairs:
- In Italian, one can ask: “Parlo italiano o turco ottomano?” (“Do I speak Italian or Ottoman Turkish?” It has a nicer cadence in Italian)
- One reported German expression for something incomprehensible: “Mesopotamisch”. Another one: “Kauderwelsch” (possibly referring to the Rhaeto-Romance language spoken in Switzerland)
- Older Taiwanese refer to youthspeak, internet slang etc. as sounding “Martian” to them.
- Even Esperanto-speakers have been endowed with their own expression, pointing the finger at another constructed language: “Estas Volapuk al mi!” (“It’s Volapük to me!”)
- In Finnish, “Siansaksa” (“Pig German”) is the word for incomprehensible gibberish. Notice the similar English expression “Pig Latin”.
- In Icelandic, one could say “Þetta er latína fyrir mér” (“This is Latin to me”) or “Þetta kemur mér spánskt fyrir sjónir” (“This looks Spanish to me”).
- “Das ist mir Böhmischer Dörfer” (‘That’s Bohemian villages to me”) – this German reference to the incomprehension (or at least impronouncability) of Bohemian (i.e. Czech) village names is mirrored in the Slovak expression “Je pre mňa španielska dedina” (“(That) is for me a Spanish village”), and in the Slovenian one “To mi je španska vas” (“This is a Spanish village to me”) . Other related expressions, not just dealing with incomprehension so much as just plain chaos, are “Czeski film” (“Czech movie”) in Polish, for a kafkaesque situation, for example in dealing with bureaucracy. German has “polnische Wirtschaft” (“Polish economy”) for a chaotic situation and “Fachchinesisch” for technical jargon.
(1) In Rome of course, not in Greece.
The French think that a chaotic situation resembles a Spanish hostel (auberge espagnol).
Comment by Matt — February 26, 2009 @ 12:50 am
I suspect that it is also a regional issue, not just language. As an English speaking New Zealander, I have only ever heard, “sounds like Double Dutch to me”.
It is interesting that there are no lines with double arrows.
Comment by tr3v — February 26, 2009 @ 1:05 am
In German (which is not listed, which I find strange) it’s a mix of both Chinese and Spanish…
“That sounds Spanish to me” and “I only understand Chinese” (meaning: all I hear is Chinese) are equal expressions meaning: I don’t understand a single thing.
Comment by MrMister — February 26, 2009 @ 1:14 am
Technically, the Latin gloss you quote is much more literal — it’s just “This is Greek, I can’t read it.” The “to me” (in the English expression, anyway) indicates it’s a charming metaphor, whereas the undereducated monks were just making a statement of fact.
Comment by jfruh — February 26, 2009 @ 1:14 am
“(1) In Rome of course, not in Greece.”
Actually classical Greek was an elite language in Roman Greece too. At that time, only the highly educated could speak it, and made fun of those who didn’t.
Comment by Geiseric — February 26, 2009 @ 1:35 am
German: Das kommt mir Spanisch vor.
Comment by Sylvia — February 26, 2009 @ 2:00 am
Seeing people saying don’t understand Spanish is very incredible to me. Spanish is so easy to Portuguese speakers. hehe
:( Does nobody think nothing about Portuguese?
Comment by Mateus — February 26, 2009 @ 2:13 am
Interesting that noone says “sounds like English to me”.
Comment by EmVicW — February 26, 2009 @ 2:21 am
Note that the places where “It’s Spanish to me” are Slovakia, Slovenia, and (from the comments) Germany, all parts of the Habsburg Empire. It might all go back to 16th Century Castillian bureaucrats trying to administer their polyglot realm.
Comment by Tratclif — February 26, 2009 @ 2:30 am
Why is there a double arrow from Russian to Chinese?
Comment by Gamesmaster G-9 — February 26, 2009 @ 2:52 am
More interesting to me is the terminal languages. It’s hard for me to believe the researchers went to the trouble of finding trends in languages such as Sinhala and Persian without bothering to search in more relevant languages such as Japanese. Do the Japanese simply not have an equivalent phrase for incomprehension?
Comment by The Flying Dutchman! — February 26, 2009 @ 3:02 am
That greek would feature in many european languages is definitelly a remnant from the monks. But I would guess that any books in the monastary that were not in latin were either in greek or Hebrew, which would explain the existance of Hebrew there. I now that in Norwegian it’s common so say that it sounds like Hebrew, and in Swedish you can use either greek or hebrew (though greek is more common).
Interesting that in yiddish one says it’s like aramaic. The gmara in the talmud is in arameic as is the kaddish prayer. I guess that many knew Hebrew since it was the prayer language, but arameic was more of an “elite” language. Ironic, actually, since the arameic was often used 2000 years ago instead of hebrew in order to be understandable by the common people that were aramaic-speakers at the time…
Comment by thatdudeyouknow — February 26, 2009 @ 5:18 am
Wow.
It’s cool to be featured on my two favorite blogs…
Great catch, strangemaps :)
Comment by Yuval — February 26, 2009 @ 5:43 am
They’re missing French’s “J’y perds mon latin.”
Comment by Lia — February 26, 2009 @ 5:46 am
Wow! I was recently approached by a software engineer with a document in French. He asked, “do you have the drivers to decode this?” (I do but they are corrupted. :)
Comment by mattedgar — February 26, 2009 @ 6:25 am
“Interesting that noone says ’sounds like English to me’.”
I bet it’s partially because English is such a new language it hasn’t had time to develop as “barbaric”. It probably also has something to do with the way English is hard at work infiltrating most every culture…
I’m also curious why the double line from Russian to Chinese. I would guess there are two common phrases that make the same connection?
Comment by Kyle McDonald — February 26, 2009 @ 6:26 am
Whoops, if you read the original post the two arrows were just a mistake.
Comment by Kyle McDonald — February 26, 2009 @ 6:29 am
珍紛漢紛(chimpunkampun) is a Japanese word meaning “gibberish.” The characters sometimes used to write it mean “strange and confusing, Chinese and confusing,” and some dictionaries say the word originally referred to the outlandish and incomprehensible Chinese texts used by Confucianists.
Comment by sac — February 26, 2009 @ 7:18 am
I can’t think of the two phrases linking Russian to Chineses (while the one is obvious and literally means “this is some Chinese [writing] to me”)
Comment by DP — February 26, 2009 @ 7:20 am
There are also French words meaning “gibberish”, or hinting you don’t understand that come from other languages :
- “salamalec” as in “il fait des salamalecs” comes from Arabic “Salam Aleikum”
- “baragouine” comes from the regional language of Britanny, and means “far ha gwinn” (cake and meat) because that was what Britons asked in hotels when they came to Paris
So, as clueless people were often repeated those words, it stayed in the language as a meaning of cluelessness about what the other is saying.
And I am probably missing some other idiomatic expressions ;)
Comment by Sly — February 26, 2009 @ 7:26 am
Another one in German is “Das sind böhmische Dörfer für mich”, literally “That’s Bohemian villages to me”, figuratively “that’s all Greek to me”. Supposedly from the incomprehensibility of the Slavic names of Bohemian villages to the Germans who lived there.
Comment by Sam L — February 26, 2009 @ 7:37 am
And it’s already in the comments in the post, oops.
Comment by Sam L — February 26, 2009 @ 7:38 am
In Danish you also find the word “Kauderwelsch” or kaudervælsk, besides the use of “Volapyk” as a term for something meaningless.
Comment by Morten Greis — February 26, 2009 @ 7:54 am
Few french-speaking people still use “javanese” nowadays, most now prefer “chinese”, sometimes “hebrew”. I’ve even heard “serbo-croatian” once. I’be curious to know about the cultural variations between France, Belgium, Québec and other french-speaking countries (mostly African).
Comment by Frédéric Bonnet — February 26, 2009 @ 8:20 am
i once heard a lebanese tell about some scientific gibberish “it sounds like russian to me”
Comment by mr creek — February 26, 2009 @ 8:25 am
In swedish there’s also “rotvälska”, where the first part means “root” and the second part (“welsch” in german) means non-germanic. I’m assuming that’s the same word as “Welsh”? :)
Comment by Birdseed — February 26, 2009 @ 9:25 am
It is worth noting that in most languages belonging to slavic family (exception for Russia), the word for “Germany” is “Niemcy”(Polish), “Nemacka”(Serbo-Croatian),”Nemecko”(Czech and Slovak) etc. which actually comes from a word “n(i)emy” which means “mute” or “unintelligible”, thus creating a natural boundary of understanding, both in communication and politics :-)
Comment by Maciej — February 26, 2009 @ 9:36 am
German actually has a number of phrases that sort of fit here. I think much of it is very regional. Although, I originally learned the “sounds like Spanish” phrase in school, I’ve never actually heard anyone use it. The Bohemian villages are fairly well-known, but maybe a little antiquated. The most common phrase I’ve encountered is “Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof” (All I understand is train station). Maybe that comes from the post-war years when Germans began doing a lot of traveling with phrasebooks.
Kauderwelsch is simply a word for gibberish. However, it is probably related to an Old Germanic word for foreigner. As Birdseed noted, it is the same as the word Welsh and a couple of other familiar words. This actually goes back to the Celtic tribe of the Volcae in southern Gaul.
German also has the word “Fachchinesisch” or “technical/subject Chinese”. This is used for highly technical or specialized jargon and may be more common today than any of the other phrases.
Comment by DemetriosX — February 26, 2009 @ 9:46 am
‘German has “polnische Wirtschaft” (”Polish economy”) for a chaotic situation’
In Sweden we also have the expression “polsk riksdag” (polish parliament) for a chaotic and ineffective meeting. In the past, every nobleman sitting in the polish parliament had absolute veto,and thus all decisions had to be taken with consensus, which was not so effective.
Comment by erzx — February 26, 2009 @ 10:40 am
Interesting relationship between Yiddish and Aramaic. Yiddish speakers would have experience of small amounts of Aramaic through Hebrew prayer-book. Bits of the Jewish liturgy were written in Aramaic as well as Hebrew, and the written characters of all three are the same. But Aramaic is notoriously awkward – even ugly – compared to Hebrew, and a Yiddish speaker who was not especially well educated might find him or herself tripping over the unfamiliar Aramaic.
Comment by DB — February 26, 2009 @ 10:46 am
Spaniards will sometimes use Polish to refer to known, but not understood languages, specially minority languages like Catalan.
“A mi no me hables polaco” (Don’t speak Polish to me) used to be a (very rude) way of asking someone to switch to Spanish.
Comment by Marc Ordinas i Llopis — February 26, 2009 @ 11:07 am
As an Italian, the expression “Parlo italiano o turco ottomano?” comes as completely unheard of. It might come from another region of Italy… the graph seems more accurate, as the expressions “Parlo arabo?” or “Parlo aramaico?” are truly widespread. I may also add “Parlo ostrogoto?” (“Am I speaking ostrogoth?”), an unexpected relic of one of the first “barbaric” invaders of Italy, after the fall of the Western Roman Empire…
Comment by Luca — February 26, 2009 @ 11:22 am
The german Phrase “Das kommt mir Spanisch vor” is more in the meaning “That sound suspicious to me” -> I understand what you say, but I do not trust it
Comment by Thorsten — February 26, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
[...] 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps – Hard to explain, but fun. [...]
Pingback by Links February 25th to February 26th at The Arabist — February 26, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
Addition: I know also in German the following: If you explain something very simple and the other person does not act like you want, some say “Do I speak Swahili?”
Comment by Thorsten — February 26, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
[...] is awesome: “its just greek to me” as a concept of incomprehension of something varies depending on which language you speak. Makes [...]
Pingback by webponce.com / rants / Things I’m Reading — February 26, 2009 @ 12:16 pm
In Dutch we have our own version of “Kauderwelsch” too, “Koeterwaals”. Although I understand it to mean more broken language than truly unintelligible speech which is chinese to us.
Comment by Tyr — February 26, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
The chances of Shakespeare coining “Greek to me” rather than (maybe) being the first recorded use must be pretty small.
“Mutual incomprehension results from the right mixture of inter-lingual proximity and unintelligibility. In the Middle Ages, for example, when the monks’ knowledge of Greek was waning, they would write in the margin of texts they could not translate, in Latin: “Graecum est, non legitur” (”This is Greek to me, I can’t read it”).”
I’d bet good money on that being made up. It doesn’t make any sense.
Comment by David Weman — February 26, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
In Portuguese there’s a word to define incomprehensible speech, specially if said by more then one person at the same time: “galegada”. Galegada refers to Galicia and galician speak, which is curious, since it’s the closest language to portuguese, and some still argue that’s not even a separate language. Although of course there’s a difference in accent, that can justify this expression.
Comment by Miguel Campos — February 26, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
And it’s also quite common to hear in portuguese – at least in Portugal, not sure about Brazil – “Am I speaking russian?” when someone don’t understands you. I would say as common as “chinese” or more. Although greek is the most popular one.
Comment by Miguel Campos — February 26, 2009 @ 12:45 pm
“Which begs the fundamental question: why is language X considered the summit of incomprehension by language Y?”
No, it *poses* the question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
Comment by MarkW — February 26, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Its all Double Dutch to me, as we say here in the UK
Comment by The Parkerilla — February 26, 2009 @ 1:07 pm
Greeks would say ‘This is Chinese to me’ to demonstrate incomprehension. I have never heard of using Arabic in the same context.
Interestingly enough, Greeks use ‘Farsi’ in the phrase “This guy speaks farsi seven languages”. Here, ’speaks farsi’ means ’speaks (the language) fluently’.
Apparently, the fast speaking Farsi speakers made a lasting impression in modern Greek history and the expression stayed on.
You can search for examples with the string “τα μιλάει φαρσί”.
Comment by Simos — February 26, 2009 @ 1:34 pm
Once more for German:
“das kommt mir spanisch vor” (“seems Spanish to me”) doesnt mean that you dont understand it, but that something is suspicious about it or it doesn’t fit into context.
Else, “ich verstehe nur Bahnhof” is the usual expression for “I don’t understand a thing” (acoustic understanding)
Otherwise, “für mich sind das böhmische Dörfer” (“it’s Bohemian villages to me”) as well als “das ist ein Büch mit sieben Siegeln” (“it’s a book with seven seals”), both refer to failing to understand due to lack of knowledge in that field (less than plain not understanding)
And well, “Kauderwelsch” is just gibberish.
Comment by Chieron — February 26, 2009 @ 1:35 pm
[...] More on mapping mutual incomprehension [...]
Pingback by [links] Link salad walks the paths of the dead | jlake.com — February 26, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/a/vacheespagnole.htm
Comment by koroshitchy — February 26, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
Never heard Argentinians or other Latin American people saying “eso es griego para mi” (that’s Greek to me). However, it’s very common “eso es chino para mi” (that’s Chinese to me).
Another (rather old) argentine expression is “hablá en cristiano”, literally “talk in Christian”, meaning “talk in Spanish”. I guess this last one has to do with the colonization period, where Christian equals Spanish oppsite to Indian.
Thanks for all your cool stuff!
Comment by Enrique — February 26, 2009 @ 2:07 pm
[...] Incomprehension mapped. [...]
Pingback by Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e56v4 — February 26, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
Serbo-Croat and Swahili have also been used in the UK as generic names implying incomprehensibility.
Comment 16 said “English is such a new language”, which is rather baffling. English has the second-oldest vernacular literature in W Europe, dating back to the 7th century AD. It has been widely used internationally for around 200 years, and has been dominant for about a century.
Comment by Graham Asher — February 26, 2009 @ 2:14 pm
[...] Mapa da incompreensão mútua – Em português – e na língua inglesa -, quando não entendemos algo, dizemos: "Isto para mim é grego". Mas e os gregos o que dizem? E os chineses. Veja este interessante mapa da incompreensão da imensa Babel em que vivemos [...]
Pingback by Notas sobre livros e outras coisas legais de 25.2.2009 a 26.2.2009 | Livros e afins — February 26, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
“Das ist mir Böhmischer Dörfer” should be “Das sind böhmische Dörfer für mich” in grammatical German.
See also: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hmisches_Dorf – they additionally list “Das ist mir ein böhmisches Dorf”, but googleing it leads mostly to hits which quote Wikipedia. I never heard it used in this wording.
Kauderwelsch ist mostly used if someone speaks badly or if someone has a chaotic writing style. It’s pejorative.
Comment by schplock — February 26, 2009 @ 2:52 pm
In the US we also use swahili and chinese. Or we can just start going ‘iba !nung na click !click click’ or some such (cf !kung language)
Comment by nygdan — February 26, 2009 @ 3:00 pm
Also, odd that the Chinese use ‘heavenly script’ in (supposedly anyway) reference to something you are /hearing/. Looks like the only one to do that, no?
Comment by nygdan — February 26, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
[...] ein Verweis auf das Language Log – und zwar genauer auf diesen Eintrag mit einem Diagramm (gefunden via StrangeMaps), das zeigt, welche Sprachen in welchen Sprachen als prototypisch [...]
Pingback by [ʃplɔk] — February 26, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
When I was in the US Army, a chaotic situation was a “Chinese fire drill.”
Comment by Rodger — February 26, 2009 @ 3:07 pm
In the U.S. a confusing or futile situation is often referred to as a ‘Chinese fire drill’.
I have no guess as to why the Chinese are singled out here as having fire drills that are more confusing than an average.
Comment by mosler — February 26, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
More Swedish – my grandmother used to say: Det är latin för en oxe.
It’s latin to an ox.
Comment by EJ — February 26, 2009 @ 3:50 pm
In Portuguese anything absurd is Byzantine and a seemingly unending greeting is full of salamaleques (from Salam Aleikum).
Comment by Rita — February 26, 2009 @ 5:14 pm
You misused the term “begs the question”, it should read “raises the question”.
Comment by nd — February 26, 2009 @ 5:38 pm
[...] 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps “When an English speaker doesn’t understand a word of what someone says, he or she states that it’s ‘Greek to me’. When a Hebrew speaker encounters this difficulty, it ’sounds like Chinese’. I’ve been told the Korean equivalent is ’sounds like Hebrew’,” (tags: language culture trivia) [...]
Pingback by links for 2009-02-26 « Embololalia — February 26, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Growing in popularity in English North America is to write off other languages as “moon speak” or “moon language”.
Comment by rek — February 26, 2009 @ 6:31 pm
“Chinese Fire Drill” to me means a specific thing: when stopped at a light, passengers in the car get out and switch seats for whatever reason (one has longer legs and wants to sit in front, etc.)
Comment by Nigel Watt — February 26, 2009 @ 6:41 pm
While “chinszczyzna” (Chinese) is commonly used in Polish, another expression for gibberish is “tureckie kazanie” (Turkish sermon), so there should be another link – from Polish to Turkish.
Comment by Szymon — February 26, 2009 @ 7:15 pm
I find it curious not to see any loops in this graph. In such a chaos of languages I would really expect one, not involving just two, but maybe three or four languages.
Comment by Wim — February 26, 2009 @ 7:46 pm
[...] http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/362-greek-to-me-mapping-mutual-incomprehension/ [...]
Pingback by Diversione « Syriaca senza frontiere — February 26, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
Interestingly, a reference to ‘language’ A as being incomprehensible by someone speaking ‘language’ B also brings with it the fact that someone speaking B must’ve, at some point in time, encountered difficulties in understanding the context being spoken/explained in A—but this is not really restricted to languages (and hence the quotes above), and incompehensibilty could also refer to dialects—for example, person X in Calcutta and person Y in Sylhet would both speak Bengali, but when it comes to refering to someone being not quite comprehensible, would be common for X to refer to Sylheti(identifying the dialect, instead of the language Bengali) as measure of differentiation!!! – ‘dru
Comment by Sunbow — February 26, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
[...] Strangemaps has some fascinating visual images – mostly maps, but some other kinds of visual information. A friend linked me to one that shows which languages point to which *other* languages are incomprehensible. [...]
Pingback by Tea, cookies, and some links « a Modern Hypatia — February 26, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
About the link n°46, “parler français comme une vache espagnole”( to speak french like a spanish cow).
It says that “vache”(cow) was originally “Basque”, and that the shift was some kind of politally correct…It may just be a language shift: “basque” is “vascon” in spanish, quite close to “vache”.
Comment by lp — February 26, 2009 @ 9:01 pm
[a slide shows "Yahoo Serious Festival"]
Lisa: I know those words, but that sign makes no sense.
[2F13] Bart vs. Australia
Comment by Lisa Simpson — February 26, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
To an argentinian, the most incomprehensible speech is in fact “basic chinese”, so better not to try with mandarin… and even less with heaven script!
Comment by Argentine one — February 26, 2009 @ 10:11 pm
I’ve always used Double Dutch to describe a game of skipping rope with two ropes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Dutch_(jump_rope)
Though I’ve also heard the expression, “Dutch Courage.” Who knows what they say in the Netherlands. I guess it depends on your perspective, kind of like the French/Neapolitan disease.
Comment by Murphy — February 26, 2009 @ 10:25 pm
In Mexico “chino básico” is very popular.
Comment by Jorge — February 26, 2009 @ 10:31 pm
[...] >Source: 1< [...]
Pingback by Per me è arabo | Distanti saluti — February 26, 2009 @ 11:02 pm
[...] fío desta historia en Strange Maps veñen de publicar unha interesante gráfica, que á súa vez foi recollida de Language Log, na que [...]
Pingback by Graecum est, non legitur · Opaco — February 26, 2009 @ 11:06 pm
Sly @ 20:
The Breton term that gave rise to the French “baragouine” is actually “bara gwenn”, meaning “white bread”. This is what Bretons in Paris reportedly hassled shopkeepers for.
I don’t know where you learnt your Breton, but “cake and meat” would be “gwastell ha kig”, not “far ha gwinn”. “Gwin” actually means “wine”.
In French, one can also deride someone’s poor proficiency in the language by saying they speak it like a Spanish cow (“comme une vache espagnole”).
Comment by Ben Dekho — February 26, 2009 @ 11:38 pm
i dislike the size of the circles be apparently arbitrary
Comment by praxxo — February 27, 2009 @ 12:23 am
In my circle of friends, we say, “Are you speaking shark?”
Comment by Jeremy — February 27, 2009 @ 12:35 am
[...] Fonte: Strangemaps. [...]
Pingback by Isso É Grego Pra Mim « Samael — February 27, 2009 @ 12:58 am
[...] 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension [...]
Pingback by Interessantes woanders (2009.02.27) › Immersion I/O — February 27, 2009 @ 1:03 am
[...] 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps – An interesting mapping of which languages are the quintessential index of gobbledygook in other languages. Interestingly, no one seems to think of English as being beyond comprehension. Hat tip to arabist.net [...]
Pingback by Links for February 25th through February 27th « Grey Wool Knickers — February 27, 2009 @ 2:09 am
Ĥeĥeĥe tre bone, Estas Volapuk al mi!
ĥaĥaĥa.
Ĝis baldaŭ al ĉiuj samideanoj
Comment by kitzOgen — February 27, 2009 @ 2:50 am
don’t know if this has already been commented on, but could the German “kauderwelsch” and Dutch “koeterwaals” be the source of English “caterwaul” (a loud, harsh noise)?
Comment by jt — February 27, 2009 @ 3:07 am
[...] we might say “it’s all Greek to me.” From the always-excellent Strange Maps comes a diagram of what language people use in place of “Greek” depending in their native tong…. Romanians say “it’s all Turkish to me,” while Turks say “it’s all [...]
Pingback by Waldo Jaquith - It’s all X to me. — February 27, 2009 @ 3:27 am
Language Log is another one of my favorite blogs! ;)
Comment by Lazar — February 27, 2009 @ 5:22 am
@47 My fellow Argentine, I must disagree with you.
The use of «speak Christian» in Spanish is prior to Columbus trip. It was used in the Iberian Peninsula due to the Reconquista, where Christians from the North battled Moors to the South untill these were finally defeated in 1492 (yes, the same year the Queen of Castille sent Columbus to the “New World” (aka West Indias).
In the other hand, it’s something interesting and remarkable to remember that the Catholic Church, despite their ulterior motives, they tried to use local native languages for their Catethism teaching purposes (this is basically why so many native languages survived and adquired the Spanish alphabet to be written, because they were promoted by the priests, more interested in “saving souls” than imposing their language to the new guys).
That’s not what happen back in Europe, where speaking Arabic in Spain/Portugal was a bad signal, meaning you were impure (in the South, many Christians remained for centuries under the Cordoba Califate Goverment, keeping their religion but using Arabic (as their language or just as their script). That’s where the expression “Habla/á cristiano” comes from.
BTW, there’s a Spanish word derived from “al-arabiya” (arabic) that means something is gibberish and noisy, that word is «algarabía».
Comment by Mafioso de Menéame.net — February 27, 2009 @ 6:02 am
my dog can talk, but it sounds canine to me.
Comment by xznofile — February 27, 2009 @ 7:01 am
[...] When an English speaker doesn’t understand a phrase, they say “it’s Greek to me.” Greek speakers in the same situation may say “sounds like Chinese.” And Chinese speakers will refer in turn to the language of Heaven. It’s all mapped out here. [...]
Pingback by I’m sorry I can’t be more fashionably cynical, but it’s just not in my make-up pouch. « By Erin Ptah — February 27, 2009 @ 8:18 am
I own this. I speak French, Spanish, Greek and Arabic!
PWN!
Comment by blimp — February 27, 2009 @ 8:32 am
@82: I don’t think so.
http://www.etymonline.com gives the following explanation for caterwaul:
“c.1386, caterwrawet, perhaps from M.Du. cater “tomcat” + waul “to yowl,” apparently from O.E. *wrag, *wrah “angry,” of uncertain origin.”
Merriam-Webster has “Middle English caterwawen” as an earlier form.
The etymology of “Kauderwelsch” is also surrounded by doubts, but most sources state that the second part, “Welsch”, refers to an old term for Romance languages. The corresponding Old English form is “wilisc” (meaning ‘foreign, non-English, Cymric’), so no similarity to the quoted “wrag”.
Comment by schplock — February 27, 2009 @ 8:44 am
@9: Indeed, this is the reason. At least in Germany. During the Habsburg reign the Bavarian king introduced Spanish as the official language at the court. So the noblemen spoke Spanish while the common people spoke German. That’s why the latter coined this Spanish language phrase.
Comment by C — February 27, 2009 @ 9:11 am
I’m a Chinese, but can anyone translate “Heavenly Script”? I seem to have not heard about it.
Comment by kaenifngan — February 27, 2009 @ 9:40 am
The Spanish use a lot “Swedish” in these kind of expressions.
Comment by asd — February 27, 2009 @ 9:51 am
[...] Här är en liten karta om språksvårigheter. [...]
Pingback by Rena kinesiskan | Alex i Kina — February 27, 2009 @ 9:53 am
In Dutch we also have the expression: “There isn’t a word of Spanish in it.” (Daar is geen woord Spaans bij), meaning that something is said very clearly and unambiguously.
Comment by Jonathan — February 27, 2009 @ 10:45 am
In Spain nowadays is more used the reference to chinese (and swedish and polish sometimes, as other people has pointed) than the reference to greek. But it’s said that the word “gringo” (more used in Latin american countries) maybe comes from the word “griego”(greek)
Comment by Miguel — February 27, 2009 @ 11:51 am
Really nice one!
Somebody updated that already: Germans sometimes refer to Spanish when it comes to saying “I don’t understand it”…
For me, being a spanish expat in Germany, that expression remains a really funny memory of my early years here…
Anyway: A fascinating field!
Comment by natalika — February 27, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
@ 91
Probably meant is “it’s a heavenly book” – mystic.
In Hong Kong : yat go tin sue.
Comment by novparl — February 27, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
Great. I hate the fact that there are times when I, a native English-speaker, am listening to someone speak English and still find their meaning to be more than a bit foggy.
Now that the Bush Administration is over this seems to be happening a little less often for me. :)
Comment by rationalpsychic — February 27, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
You may want to check this paper out:
http://www.cs.umass.edu/~rsnbrg/hardest.pdf
Comment by Drew — February 27, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
Wow you can really tell which countries are better than the others. Those countries are much more successful and have more intelligent citizens.
Comment by James — February 27, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
I don’t remember the source for this, but: barbaros, the Greek root for the English word barbaric, referred to non-Greek speaking people (especially Persians from Asia Minor), who seemed to only say “bar bar bar bar bar.”
Comment by Miles — February 27, 2009 @ 6:41 pm
Really interesting!
It’s the same when I try to explain idioms (frases hechas) to my children in spanish lessons :)
Comment by Lau — February 27, 2009 @ 7:04 pm
[...] Gefunden auf language log und strange maps. [...]
Pingback by Die schwierigste Sprache der Welt — February 27, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
There’s an updated version of the graph on the language log blog.
Comment by ulrich — February 27, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
Regarding the expression used (at least) in Argentina: “Speak in Christian!”, I tought it was from italian heritage.
In fact, I prefer the italian version “¡parla cristiano!” -wich is certainly an odd way to ask someone to speak clear (argentine) Spanish.
…(By the way, this alternation of italian and spanish may be an example of “cocoliche” -i.e. glibberish-, the confusing language mix of spanish and italian dialects spoke by many inmigrants in early XXth century Buenos Aires).
Anyway, the origin of the expression “speak Christian!” certainly is from the european (mediterranean) context.
The Iberian Reconquista may be the origin, but knowing it has an italian version too, I guess it may come otherwise from the midst of the permanent war for the control of the sea routes against the Turks.
Comment by Argentine one — February 27, 2009 @ 8:08 pm
Ha ha ha! That is awesome! So dead-on.
We Greeks do say “it’s Chinese to me” and when my father can’t hear what we’re saying, he says “What is that, Arabic, you’re speaking?”
Comment by SophiaAa — February 27, 2009 @ 9:13 pm
[...] 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps [...]
Pingback by links for 2009-02-27 | Acervus — February 27, 2009 @ 11:07 pm
Oh, this is NICE!
Comment by michael5000 — February 28, 2009 @ 3:20 am
An interesting flipside to all this: a Basque friend once told me that Basque farmers swear only in Spanish, “because God doesn’t understand it”.
;-)
Comment by Ben Dekho — February 28, 2009 @ 6:21 am
It seems that it’s not so much the spoken language as it is a completely incomprehensible script (from the perspective of another language).
Most of the languages represented choose Greek and Chinese probably because they’re written in scripts very different from the Roman alphabet. Arabic and Hebrew would also fall in this category.
Comment by Wind — February 28, 2009 @ 12:26 pm
sad that Estonia wasn’t included…it’s Chinese for us too
Comment by h2ppyme — February 28, 2009 @ 12:28 pm
I’m a little surprised nobody’s brought up ’speak white’ yet – it’s mainly a Quebecois deal, but it’s the general-purpose equivalent of ’speak Christian to me’ cited in Spanish, almost always phrased in the imperative and used as a response to a foreign language.
Also, in its case, the phrase was very specifically connected to languages which one could place, which in some sense seems to link it to ‘don’t speak Polish with me’ against Catalan, Basque, etc. In modern NAE, gibberish is typically Chinese (although it’s much more PC to issue a stream of response-nonsense as if speaking Arabic), the association of China with absurdity or baroqueness (fire drill, checkers, cuts (as in moving into line/queue before rather than after someone), etc) is fading somewhat, but ‘byzantine’ remains in use.
I can also confirm the widespread use of ‘moon speak’ / ‘moon language’ and so on for incomprehensible language, jargon, or even usage – but it’s still fairly jocular and broad, so one might be accused of it for referring to a hauling diesel-motored cab as a lorry.
Comment by alec — February 28, 2009 @ 2:36 pm
Ben Dekho
“told me that Basque farmers swear only in Spanish, “because God doesn’t understand it”.”
in 19th century some Polish catholic priests used very similar argument why Lithuanian peasants should pray in polish
Comment by L — February 28, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
[...] StrangeMaps apresenta um cartograma representando como diferentes línguas se referem a outras como sinônimo do incompreensível, e é curioso observá-lo por todas as influências históricas e culturais que o construíram. [...]
Pingback by Falando Grego < Arábico < Hindi | 100nexos — March 1, 2009 @ 12:04 am
1 – I think “graecum est” would be more accurately translated as “it is greek” than “this is greek to me,” no?
2 – this is an interesting related reference http://www.omniglot.com/language/idioms/incomprehensible.php
3 – too many improper uses of “begs the question” in this post. I believe you mean “raises the question”
Comment by RPG — March 1, 2009 @ 8:16 am
In Finland some might also say “Puhu ihmisten kieltä” that is “Speak human language” in English.
Comment by jou — March 1, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
In Russian, the word for the German language is “nemyetski”, which means mute, indicating that early bohemian tribes that slavs encountered appeared to be speaking gibberish.
Comment by Emily — March 1, 2009 @ 7:11 pm
@Birdseed:
I am actually pretty certain that the Swedish “rotvälska” might refer to the German Rotwelsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotwelsch; rot = red in German), which also might have a correlation with Kauderwelsch.
I’d also like to add, that in the northeast of Germany, when you don’t understand something, you often say “Sounds like Polish backwards to me.”
Comment by Zanzando — March 1, 2009 @ 8:05 pm
In Turkish, “Staying French” is a term for “having nothing to do with it”.
Comment by Alp — March 1, 2009 @ 9:11 pm
However when there is confusement during a subject you say “if I understand this I become an arab”
Comment by Alp — March 1, 2009 @ 9:26 pm
I was also wondering why German had been left out of the graph, but come to think of it (and judging from the comments, too), there seems to be no widely used expression referring to only a language. The most common expression, from my experience, is indeed “Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof” / “I comprehend only ‘train station’”.
Zanzando: I’ve heard (and used) it as “chinesisch rückwärts” (“Chinese backwards”) in Saxony.
“Rotwelsch” doesn’t originate from “rot=red”, as the German wikipedia article explains. :) The “-welsch” is the same in both, though.
Comment by Varana — March 2, 2009 @ 12:35 am
@ Frédéric Bonnet re. #24:
Around here in Quebec, I only hear “Chinese” used in this situation (“c’est du chinois”). Never “Hebrew”.
Comment by Marc — March 2, 2009 @ 3:19 am
So Hindi-speakers have no difficulty with any particular language? Could be because there are so many to choose from. I’ve observed that India has 22 official languages and therefore for the speakers of different languages it is a daily phenomenon to come across some language they do not comprehend. The reason for the absence of such a similar quote would be that India has always been a multilingual, multi religious, multiethnic and multi cultural society and hence there is no particular preferred language for daily discourse. Every region is free to speak in its own language. Case in point: 5 of the languages listed above are spoken in different regions of India.
Comment by Someone rightly — March 2, 2009 @ 6:23 am
I am Chinese, but I’ve never heard the phrase ‘Heavenly Script’ used before in my life, … Normally we will say ‘Are you speaking Indian?’ (Does not include specific Indian language) or ‘Are you speaking Arabic?’ But nobody understands when I speak Chinese anyway! (:
Comment by zhc — March 2, 2009 @ 9:23 am
[...] It’s Greek to me! A map. [...]
Pingback by Neumatikos » Morning Links — March 2, 2009 @ 12:54 pm
[...] ord kom jeg over via Strange Maps bloggen. De hadde en post, hvor de hadde mappet hvilket språk forskjellige språk refererer til som “gresk”, som [...]
Pingback by HC SVNT DRACONES » Dagens Ord: Kaudervelsk — March 2, 2009 @ 3:05 pm
[...] From Strange Maps: It’s All Greek To Me Filed under: Current Events, Humor, Public Debate — chr1 @ 11:50 am Tags: Cartogram, Strange Maps Full post here. [...]
Pingback by From Strange Maps: It’s All Greek To Me « Chris Navin — March 2, 2009 @ 6:50 pm
@Ben Dekho
Also a basque legend sais that the Devil committed suicide in a place called the Infernuzubi ravine (Infernuzubi means “The gates of Hell”, I belive…some euskaldun in the public?) because he couldn’t understand the basque language.
Comment by Miguel — March 3, 2009 @ 2:22 am
[...] equivalent of “it’s all Greek to me” in a variety of languages. Apparently Chinese is the Greek-iest of them [...]
Pingback by Benjamin Tegarden / Daily Reading — March 3, 2009 @ 2:59 am
Hungarian: “Ez nekem kínai.” (=This is Chinese to me)
Comment by Szabo Pal — March 3, 2009 @ 10:44 am
It’s Israeli to me!
Comment by Jim — March 3, 2009 @ 12:11 pm
What is the provenance of this diagram? Did you make it or did you find it somewhere else. If you made it, what software did you use?
Comment by dr nø — March 3, 2009 @ 1:15 pm
[...] Maps: Greek to Me. This is a little bit of a departure for the Strange Maps folks. In English we say something is [...]
Pingback by JohnFrat.us » Today’s Report - March 3rd — March 3, 2009 @ 6:02 pm
[...] via strangemaps, via [...]
Pingback by Ehi ma parlo arabo? - manteblog — March 3, 2009 @ 9:59 pm
[...] Read [...]
Pingback by Hmmm, that sounds like Chinese to me. | GPS Obsessed — March 3, 2009 @ 10:13 pm
[...] German in Mesopotomian, if Finnish in Pig German, if Arabic in Hindi…Indeed, you might need a map to decipher what’s incomprehensible in other [...]
Pingback by Daily question: Is it Greek, Javanese or Heavenly Script to you? « counternotions — March 4, 2009 @ 4:04 am
[...] discussed the Map of Mutual Incomprehension… it’s Greek to [...]
Pingback by SWAB! Super Wicked Awesome Blog / Blog Archive » March 2, 2009 — March 4, 2009 @ 6:52 am
[...] (via Kottke, strange maps) [...]
Pingback by And Far Away » Eish, 3am te7ki Sansakriti? — March 4, 2009 @ 12:16 pm
Actually, for Arabic speaking people, we equate mumbo-jumbo with Sanskrit rather than Hindi. And the reason is simple. From Wikipedia, “Of modern day Indian languages, while Hindi and Urdu tend to be more heavily weighted with Arabic and Persian influence, Nepali, Bengali, Assamese, Konkani and Marathi still retain a largely Sanskrit vocabulary base.”
Comment by Roba — March 4, 2009 @ 12:18 pm
In Denmark I’ve heard and used “He spoke Russian” when not understanding a single word.
Comment by Ole — March 4, 2009 @ 1:04 pm
@ Ole:
Sært, den har jeg ikke hørt før. Det lyder sort for mig.
Comment by mortengreis — March 4, 2009 @ 1:55 pm
Living in France for two years, ans speaking French fluently, I never heard French people saying “it’s Javanese for me”. They say “c’est de l’Hebreu pour moi” – it’s Hebrew for me.
Comment by Tita — March 4, 2009 @ 9:12 pm
[...] 5 Μαρτίου, 2009 · Κανένα σχόλιο Σας φαίνονται κινέζικα. Στους αγγλόφωνους φαίνονται ελληνικά. Τι γίνεται όμως με τους υπόλοιπους; 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps [...]
Pingback by 362 - Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps « As Greek As It Gets — March 5, 2009 @ 12:31 pm
A Hindi speaker would say, “This is as incomprehensible as Sanskrit to me.” An instance of the language of incomprehension coming from the same culture. Both Hindi and Sanskrit use the same script – Devanagari.
Comment by Vanlal Tochhawng — March 5, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
[...] 5 Mart 2009 · Yorum yapılmamış http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/362-greek-to-me-mapping-mutual-incomprehension/ [...]
Pingback by “indim seyran ettim firengistan’ı” « digamma — March 5, 2009 @ 5:50 pm
[...] It’s Greek to me, but often it’s Chinese. Sometimes though, it’s heavenly script… [...]
Pingback by It’s heavenly script to me? at Drew Cogbill | Thesis Blog — March 6, 2009 @ 1:57 am
How do you say “commits the logical fallacy of petitio principii” in greek? How do you say it a second time still unaware of its meaning?
Comment by Alphonse — March 6, 2009 @ 2:44 am
I would like to congratulate you for you excellent post! It is a great piece of understanding how globalization can be something that shows us our similarities and diminish our differences.
But…
From a scientific and historical point of view I would like to make a correction. There is no “Macedonian” language neither a “Macedonian” idiom. The people of FYROM speak an hybrid of Slavic and Albanic language that has no connection or origin with the language that ancient Macedonians spoke. Ancient Macedonian spoke exactly the same language with all other Greeks (Athenians, Spartans etc) which is exactly the same language that moderns Greeks speak.
So I thing that it would be appropriate in order to complete this wonderful work to consider making this correction.
With great respect to every nation and with great respect to truth and history.
Thank you.
Comment by Καημός — March 7, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
Although in Portuguese one usually says “it’s Greek” or “it’s Chinese”, one may also say ‘alaraviada’ when something is difficult to understand, when it is too confusing and there are too many foreign words. Coming from arab word al’arabiya, meaning arab language.
Comment by Marina — March 7, 2009 @ 8:16 pm
Sorry, I mispelled the word in my former post. It is algaraviada.
Comment by Marina — March 7, 2009 @ 8:19 pm
I have bookmarked this site, and occasionally I check out the maps. I find them very eurymatic, very intelligent and funny and sometimes I laugh.
Thhough, we have to emphasize one problem again showing around in the websphere…There is not Macedonian language. Macedonians and Macedon language, are integral parts of Hellas and Hellenik language. FYROM, was until 1940s called as Vardar and you might have seen it in some maps. I had. After Stalin and Tito decided that they should play their own devide and qonquer, they stepped up with the idea of a Macedonian nation. Which is totally false.
Sincerely, do keep up this great site. :-)
Comment by dim — March 7, 2009 @ 10:18 pm
In Spanish there is the expression “hacerse el sueco”. That is “to act as a Swede”. When you do so, you pretend that you don´t understand something so as to have an excuse not to do it and thus avoid a duty that, otherwise, you should have to carry out.
Comment by Piscarciano — March 7, 2009 @ 10:55 pm
[...] Apparently Korean speakers say it “sounds like Hebrew,” according to Language Log. Strange Maps illustrates the relationships between languages that seem alien. Chinese definitely wins, being the [...]
Pingback by It’s all Greek to Me « DaiWeiDaoism - the ongoing education of emilyd — March 8, 2009 @ 4:19 am
[...] “it’s all Greek to me”, but in Turkish, one’s incomprehensible in French, and so on. Note also the Italian complaint: “Parlo italiano o turco ottomano?”–Do I speak [...]
Pingback by in the meantime « verbal privilege — March 9, 2009 @ 5:16 am
Excellent page and very funny. It’s a real Babel(Babylon?/Byblos?? :) Tower!
For Polish I have found lack of only one national idiom related to communication problems – “austriackie gadanie” (= Austrian idle talk/gab/pratle) = fiddlesticks – many talking (especially in bureaucracy) about nothing / without any results (probably originated during last years of strong bureaucraced Austro-Hungarian monarchy).
Till now was else:
Mówię do ciebie po polsku, czy po chińsku? (Do I speak Polish or China to you?)
Tureckie kazanie (Turkish sermon) – don’t understand somebody’s lecture, especially in school (today I have sit down like at Turkish sermon!)
Czeski film – (Czech movie) – nobody understand what’s going on. I suppose, that this fresh idiom [oneself movie is rather fresh] originated at time, when every series movie had extremely big reach. At this time was popular Czech series movie for all families “Nobody is home” about kid left alone in his flat (like “Kevin alone at home” movie – every part of serial has started from the ringing at the door and kid’s voice: “Nobody is at home!” :)) This funny, enigmatic situation, repeated in every part could origin an idiom “Czech movie” – nobody knows what’s going on. :)
and of course: “austriackie gadanie” (= Austrian idle talk/gab/pratle).
Best regards for all debaters of all nations (and forgive me my poor English :)
/-/
Mariusz [mr.]
Comment by Mariusz [mr.] — March 9, 2009 @ 8:02 am
@ 144, Vanlal Tochhawng:
A Hindi speaker would most likely say, sounds like ‘farsi’ (Persian).
Comment by RG — March 9, 2009 @ 8:42 am
[...] It’s Greek to me: how different cultures express incomprehension [...]
Pingback by Mediation Channel » Round-up of noteworthy articles for mediators, negotiators — March 9, 2009 @ 4:10 pm
what i can say is that this graphic doesn’t seem hebrew nor chinese to me (i’m french)!!! it’s very clear and informative. thanks :-)
Comment by accrobyte — March 9, 2009 @ 4:34 pm
Fascinating article. But in talking about all languages, it commits one of my English language pet peeves: “To beg the question” does not mean “to ask a question!”
Comment by Martha — March 9, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
it’s all double Dutch to me. take it from a Dutchman.
Comment by Benny Snepvangers — March 9, 2009 @ 7:53 pm
In Brazilian Portuguese, we only have the reference to Greek, ‘Estou falando grego?’ (‘Am I speaking Greek?’) being the most common sentence.
Great post!
Comment by martsil — March 9, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
[...] dit soort verwijzingen zijn bij elkaar gebracht op een mooie kaart van de weblog ‘Strange Maps’. Chinezen zelf blijken overigens naar onbegrijpelijkheid te verwijzen als Hemels [...]
Pingback by Dat is Chinees voor mij… « McCann People Blog — March 10, 2009 @ 9:02 am
[...] So, if English speakers say “It’s all Greek to me” about something they don’t understand, what do the Greeks say? [...]
Pingback by - First Drafts - The Prospect magazine blog — March 10, 2009 @ 5:51 pm
[...] Republished from StrangeMaps. Originally published February 26, 2009. [...]
Pingback by Kelso’s Corner » Blog Archive » Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension (StrangeMaps) — March 11, 2009 @ 12:01 pm
In spanish only: esto es chino.
También: esto es turco.
NUNCA : esto es griego.
El griego y el español son foneticamente MUY SIMILARES.
Comment by traslacerca — March 13, 2009 @ 11:20 am
[...] what do other people say–above all, ahem, the Greeks? Well, somebody has now mapped [...]
Pingback by It’s all Greek to me « The Hannibal Blog — March 14, 2009 @ 12:11 am
[...] Ich verstehe nur Chinesisch: …und was man in anderen Sprachen in so einem Fall sagt: Für Perser klingt es japanisch, für Polen chinesisch, für Franzosen hebräisch und für Hebräer chinesisch. « Knox [...]
Pingback by Ich verstehe nur Chinesisch ‹ dreitehabee — March 16, 2009 @ 9:21 am
[...] Ich verstehe nur Chinesisch: …und was man in anderen Sprachen in so einem Fall sagt: Für Perser klingt es japanisch, für Polen chinesisch, für Franzosen hebräisch und für Hebräer chinesisch. « Knox Lost: A Theory on Time Travel » [...]
Pingback by Ich verstehe nur Chinesisch ‹ dreitehabee — March 16, 2009 @ 9:21 am
[...] Ad ogni modo qualcuno si è chiesto quale sia la lingua considerata incomprensibile dal maggior numero di culture… E il risultato è questo: http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/362-greek-to-me-mapping-mutual-incomprehension/ [...]
Pingback by Io l’inglese non lo capisco: per me è arabo. « Si capisce — March 20, 2009 @ 6:40 am
Hellenes (Greeks) say, “Malakies! It’s Chinese to me”
Comment by dim — March 21, 2009 @ 12:49 am
eh close. malakies is the greek word for wankers :)
Comment by Benny Snepvangers — March 21, 2009 @ 1:45 am
I am a Chinese,
What does it mean by “the proverbial unintelligible language for Chinese it’s… the language of Heaven.”
I thought nearly all language are incomprehensible to Chinese, not only language of heaven, if there is such things.
Comment by Some Chinese — March 22, 2009 @ 9:57 am
Here in the U.S., “It’s Greek to me” is definitely the most common, although I have heard “Chinese” a handful of times, and sometimes (when referring to a text) “It’s all hieroglyphics to me.”
Comment by Bob — March 22, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
“heavenly script” = “天书“. The older Chinese would say that. Hear that phrase much less now.
Comment by noname — March 25, 2009 @ 3:38 am
In French, I’ve seen C’est du volapük — and a comicbook with the title Le Monstre du Volapük (The Monster of [Lake] Volapük).
Comment by Anton Sherwood — March 25, 2009 @ 3:49 am
Lia: J’y perds mon latin (there I lose my Latin) isn’t quite the same: it means “In this matter, I am effectively uneducated” (because higher schooling was once all in Latin).
Comment by Anton Sherwood — March 25, 2009 @ 4:22 am
[...] something? Is it Greek to everyone? What is it to Greek-speakers? Now you can know, thanks to 362 – Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps. Very interesting. Guess the Japanese don’t have a comparative expression, since their bubble [...]
Pingback by Mile Wide… Inch Deep… » Blog Archive » 362 - Greek To Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension « Strange Maps — March 28, 2009 @ 7:48 pm
Re kauderwelch, could there be a reference to Welsh here? After all, the word ‘welsh’ reputedly derives from a word meaning ‘foreign’.As an East coast Scot, we are mair likely to say that something we dont understand is “the name o’ a floor” (flower).
Comment by Philoneus Bosch — March 29, 2009 @ 3:06 am
Hi Philoneus, the German “Welsch” for Romance Languages stems from the Germanic name of a celtic tribe (the Volcae). It was later extended to other foreign tribes, i.e. the Welsh. (See also my comment #89.)
Comment by Kristin — March 30, 2009 @ 11:12 pm
I’m greek but I’ve never called anything incomprehensible arabic, that’s for sure!
But I like this graph, it’s brilliant.
Comment by Dimitris Hall — April 7, 2009 @ 6:01 pm
[...] understand something. Speakers of many other languages refer to nonsense as Chinese, and there are other interesting trends as well. I can vouch that Esperanto speakers call nonsense Volapk, but I wonder why no one says [...]
Pingback by The World of Stuff - Blog Archive - Getting to know you — April 11, 2009 @ 3:18 am
As the natural rulers of the entire world, we’ve actually never bothered to learn any other languages besides our own.
Proof of this is seen every time an Englishman ventures abroad; when wishing to converse with the locals, we simply speak ‘very slowly and ‘VERY LOUDLY’.
Works every time!
Comment by mikecunningham — April 13, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
[...] 15, 2009 in Culture | Tags: language Take a look at “Greek to Me: Mapping Mutual Incomprehension”, posted at Strange [...]
Pingback by It’s All Greek « Levitations — April 15, 2009 @ 8:24 pm
[...] Kultúrális ütközések Az európaiak sokszor lenézik a törököket (a törökök az arabokat, az arabok az indiaikat, a kínaiak meg a japánokat, akik meg fordítva, szóval mindenki jól el van. Ehhez jól kapcsolódik ez a nyelvi térkép is). [...]
Pingback by Kultúrális ütközések « İstanbul + Sema + Én + a macskák :) — April 22, 2009 @ 5:03 pm
Unless Portuguese is conting for Portugues and Brazilian Portuguese as well, I agree with the map.
However, as far as I can remember, Portuguese people will only say “That’s Chinese to me”. This may be connected to the time of the Portuguese Discoveries, around the 16th century, when several expeditions were made for Asia, China being among the destinations. Chinese was obviously a strange language, in the least.
The only reference to the Greek that occurs to me is that when you try to do something but realise that the task was much more difficult than you expected — “Vi-me grego para fazer aquilo” (“I felt like a greek while I was trying to do that”, here’s a rough translation) is the phrase, but I’m not accuainted with its origins.
Congratulations for the post! Love it!
Comment by Marcelo — May 4, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
I am Greek, from Thessaloniki.Speaking Serbian(Serbo-Croat).Yes my father also uses Arabic when he doesn’t hear what I am saying…And I use Chinese.
What I found strange is using Croatian language without Serbian which Croatian evolved from.Those are basically the same languages with only 1% or less difference,made by force from Croatians to differ form Serbian in recent days.Even Croatians find hard to always use “their” new words instead of Serbian.
So using both is languages here is logical, or simply writting Serbo-Croatian,or even Serbian if you want.But only Croatian cannot be in any way.
Also no German,strange?
Comment by Niko — May 6, 2009 @ 9:18 am
“As the natural rulers of the entire world, we’ve actually never bothered to learn any other languages besides our own.
Proof of this is seen every time an Englishman ventures abroad; when wishing to converse with the locals, we simply speak ‘very slowly and ‘VERY LOUDLY’.
Works every time!”
You know “natural ruler of the world” that famous sentence: While my ancestors Aristotel,Socrates were creating philosophy yours were….
So understand that I am,and all non English speakers are rich to know your language this good.You are poor not to know a word from mine or anyone elses..So be modest.You have no other choice.
Comment by Niko — May 6, 2009 @ 9:25 am
http://tinyurl.com/pzlxyn
Comment by a — May 23, 2009 @ 5:40 am
I can’t think of the two phrases linking Russian to Chineses (while the one is obvious and literally means “this is some Chinese [writing] to me”)
Comment by world cities — June 1, 2009 @ 5:30 pm
[...] to me.” That has links to other sources, and you can get commentary on Mark’s post at Strange Maps: “When a Hellenophone has trouble understanding something, his or her preferred languages of [...]
Pingback by Etl World News | GREEK TO ME, JAVANESE TO YOU. — June 5, 2009 @ 1:21 am
They’re missing French’s “J’y perds mon latin.” – J’y perds mon latin (there I lose my Latin) isn’t quite the same: it means “In this matter, I am effectively uneducated” (because higher schooling was once all in Latin).
– It means something like “this is so complicated that I can’t remember anything I learned, even my knowledge of Latin” (which was once the foundation of all education).
“baragouine” comes from the regional language of Britanny, and means “far ha gwinn” (cake and meat) because that was what Britons asked in hotels when they came to Paris
- It is either the noun baragouin or the verb baragouiner, coming from the Breton language of Brittany. The words are supposed to come from bara ‘bread’ and gwin ‘wine’ which were some of the few indispensable words French soldiers or travellers learned in Brittany. It would not have made sense for Bretons (not Britons) to use just a couple of words of their own language when coming to Paris: they would have learned at least the French equivalents. The words are much older than the existence of “hotels”.
Few french-speaking people still use “javanese” nowadays – Living in France for two years, ans speaking French fluently, I never heard French people saying “it’s Javanese for me”. They say “c’est de l’Hebreu pour moi” – it’s Hebrew for me.
“Le javanais” is not the actual Javanese language but a kind of Pig Latin introducing “av” into each syllable. For something impossible to understand French people use c’est de l’hébreu or c’est du chinois. Other language names might be used facetiously: the word serbo-croate strikes French speakers as particularly unusual.
In Portuguese … a seemingly unending greeting is full of salamaleques (from Salam Aleikum).
- Someone above referred to the French expression “faire des salamalecs” as meaning ’saying something incomprehensible’, but it actually means the same as in Portuguese – exaggeratedly long greetings, often accompanied by bows. Such preliminaries can be seen as superfluous and best ignored, rather than impossible to understand.
Comment by marie-lucie — June 5, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
In Dutch we sometimes use: That is/sounds like Koeterwaals – maybe taken from the German “Kauderwelsch”?•
Comment by Mirjam — June 9, 2009 @ 9:10 am
thanks this post. I made some adjustments
Comment by Владислав — June 11, 2009 @ 11:45 am
That’s neat!
Comment by believer1 — June 17, 2009 @ 3:29 am
I am reminded of this:
That is, in the mid-1400s, one way that a vernacular English speaker might say that something was incomprehensible was that it sounded like French.
Comment by Owlmirror — July 5, 2009 @ 8:04 am
[...] brings me to a wonderful entry in a wonderful blog called Strange Maps. A while back they posted “a map of mutual incomprehension.” I had forgotten about [...]
Pingback by “It was Greek to me” « eVerbosity — July 31, 2009 @ 4:23 am
I was just helping my Swedish housemate with the biology aspect of her anthropology homework, and she called my science babble “Hebrew”.
Comment by Vates — September 26, 2009 @ 10:50 pm
[...] point to the Chinese as the epitomy of undecipherability. Here’s a flow-chart describing how they’re all connected. I like that everyone flows to the Chinese – who flow to the Heavenly script (our Chinese [...]
Pingback by Do you read from the heavenly book? « My Name Is Legion — October 3, 2009 @ 11:45 pm
There is no “Macedonian” language or nation, Macedonians spoke Greek. That bubble should say Bulgarian which is what the Slavs of the FYROM speak.
After the unfortunate dismemberment of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRJ) the individual countries proceeded with imperialistic visions of their ethnic groups claiming not only territories, but also ancestry from various ancient peoples to have some type of proud history and legitimacy for their modern existence.
In this respect the Slovenes claim to be descendants of the Wends, an ancient Illyrian tribe, the Croats of the Persians, the Slavs of the FYROM from ancient Macedonians, the Bosnian Moslems from the ancient Illyrian tribes of Bosnia.
But the FYROM is a unique case. The sole purpose of the creation of the Socialist Republic under the name “Macedonia” was the eventual claim and incorporation of Greek Macedonia into communist Yugoslavia with the port of Thessaloniki as the trophy. During the period of communist Yugoslavia, a systematic “macedonization” of everything possible took place. As long as something took place in or someone was born in the Geographic Macedonia at any time from the beginning of time until today it was being changed into “Macedonian” meaning Slav.
More: http://www.greece.org/Themis/Macedonia/historengl.htm#creation
Comment by Greek — October 16, 2009 @ 9:33 pm